Claim system, should it really dissappear?

[Mr_Gyactus]

In your letter, the blurb (Examination and implementation of changes to claiming and engaging enemies) was mentioned as well as in the players poll about possibly rewarding multiple parties for bringing a monster down - Players are worried this means the world will become "free-for-all", can you explain these in detail?

We're going to make a lot of bigger battles, where lots of players will be involved in these large-scale battles. In these large-scale battles there will be multiple parties on the field. If you have a system where only one party can claim something, then other parties won't even be able to come in and help. Or to get them to come in and help, you have to have another special system to allow them to come in and help, and it just becomes to complex. So we want to have a system where it's easy to have another team to come in and help someone that's maybe in trouble.

In the future there's going to be more instanced type stuff. With the more instanced type stuff there is, the less need you have for the claim system. Because you're going to have your hardcore players who have a lot, and you're going to have your players who don't play a lot as well, to give everybody equal chances to get into battles and do what they want to do. Having that claim system there preventing it is not something that we like. We'd rather for it to be more open.

This came from an interview, http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/30254...ida-interview/
I hope this will correct the shot in the discussion.

[JayvirDeforte]

This came from an interview, http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/30254...ida-interview/
I hope this will correct the shot in the discussion.

That quote is stupid IMO. I understand that they are in control of the game but to have it open season just for the reasons listed is dumb. There are plenty of normal mobs out there that the casuals can get. Hell, even farming in Broken Water on Doblyns can support several dozen people. There is no need to make it completely open. If they do, I still want a /help command to allow it or at least make NMs and such claimable. The last thing I want to "stolen" loot by someone who was given it out of pity because they cant play a lot.

[Eclipse]

Yoshi P mentioned a hybrid options where the claimers get the drops but anyone who fights outside could also get SP.

1. Wouldn't that promote hate stealing a mob, especially an NM?
2. Is there really that much SP to go around?
3. I kinda liked the thrill of camping.
4. The question stated "damage" a mob first, what about casting a spell that doesn't damage it like slow or something. Does that not claim it due to no damage being dealt or do you think it was just a mis translation for the question?
5. I think the mechanics of Behest should be more like Besieged, where you run in and kill things and just have fun, you can claim anything, and have the final mob actually be a big bad mob. Rather than how it is soooo structured now, run in kill mob, No Shock Spikes, No AoE near unclaimed mobs, watch aggro, kill aggressive mobs first. Half the time people don't even know what to do or how to play and you end up yelling at the screen lol. It can be a more frustrating experience than fun. Perhaps have a wider variety of mobs as well. Throw in some beastmen, I don't feel like I protecting much fighting a few goats and some diggas... call in Terminex and the local butcher to do that hehe.
..alas I digress.

In your letter, the blurb (Examination and implementation of changes to claiming and engaging enemies) was mentioned as well as in the players poll about possibly rewarding multiple parties for bringing a monster down - Players are worried this means the world will become "free-for-all", can you explain these in detail?

We're going to make a lot of bigger battles, where lots of players will be involved in these large-scale battles. In these large-scale battles there will be multiple parties on the field. If you have a system where only one party can claim something, then other parties won't even be able to come in and help. Or to get them to come in and help, you have to have another special system to allow them to come in and help, and it just becomes to complex. So we want to have a system where it's easy to have another team to come in and help someone that's maybe in trouble.

In the future there's going to be more instanced type stuff. With the more instanced type stuff there is, the less need you have for the claim system. Because you're going to have your hardcore players who have a lot, and you're going to have your players who don't play a lot as well, to give everybody equal chances to get into battles and do what they want to do. Having that claim system there preventing it is not something that we like. We'd rather for it to be more open.

Besieged? Or something else. I am trying to look for a reference point for this. Anything similar that is already out there.

[viion]

I say leave it how it is with the addition of being able to claim and kill things attacking you (aggros)

I wouldnt mind a place like Dynamis where even if you're not in party you can attack because its private, its instanced, you know who the non pt members are.

[Alexios]

I think claims should remain for drops. That one thing is obvious. But claims for SP and XP are just stupid. In my opinion, you should get SP not for killings, but for successfully performed actions. Like it was implemented in the TES series. I think that system was brilliant. And that will also remove the leeches. I really hate it when some people in the party just stand nearby doing completely nothing, and still get the same SP. And behests might finally stop being so ridiculously boring, because the whole 15 big'uns won't try kicking the same little squirrel at the same time, but each will rather find his/her own target to fight. It will actually become more natural and therefore more enjoyable.

[Shaily]

But claims for SP and XP are just stupid. In my opinion, you should get SP not for killings, but for successfully performed actions.

Isn't this how it was initially? And it was horrible. Jobs that were able to do their actions quickly (pugilist in particular) were getting loads of SP, while those that took longer (esp. casters) were getting almost none. If they were to go back to this, they would have to find a way to make it fair for all jobs, no matter how fast or slow they're able to complete actions. And if you're ever in a situation where you simply aren't able to get an action out before the mob is dead because you had a quick-hitter in the group... tough. Definitely not a system I would want to go back to.

[Hyu]

I belive the claiming system shoudl remain as it is for the regular more, as most of the people in this thread agree.

Now, as for Large Scale events, why not just continue with the formula used in Final Fantasy XI? Everyone gets experience points (as in Besiedged) and everyone gets a shot for the items (as in Dynamis). It's a system that worked for years, so I don't understand why isn't it being used again. Just need to make sure all these events are instanced.

NMs should work as regular monsters do, so that any party that claims has the chance to test their strategy and their group against the monster. Final Fantasy XI also had a number of mechanisms to deal with the initial fight for claim, so they could also be used again.

[Edit] I found another thread on the same issue, that has the proper forum tag. Trying to link them together:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...gaging-enemies

[darkstarpoet1]

there's a few major changes i would love to see in the claim system.

1. if i am attacking a mob and a higher level mob aggros and attacks me is the ability to turn and put a priority on that mob and still be able to get sp off that mob. i use that as an example cause if i am fighting a cobblyn and a diremite attacks me that diremite must die first because it is actually strong enough to kill me.

2. i am doin a leve and a miteling attacks a mage in back of the group and turns around to kill it to get it off them you will lose mobs from a leve that is yours anyways. all leve mobs should already be classified as claimed mobs.

3. behest you are running with the group and fighting mobs and you hit one and realize it is not red because some guy ran off by himself and started attacking random mobs. then all mobs in the behest would be classified as claimed mobs.

i do not like the idea of first person hitting the mobs getting all the sp because you would have people if someone comes into an area just aoe every mob in there to keep others from being able to claim a mob and even if they did and killed it that first person would get all the sp.

the idea of everyone attacking a mob getting equal exp sp off it would be easily taken advantage of too. you run through areas with high level mobs and see someone attacking a high level mob run up hit once and then leave. you would get free sp for doin nothing.

i think this is something they will have to tweak multiple times to get the correct mixture on with multiple party on single mob parties because they can be exploited quite easily. we already know that will happen with the other glitches people found to play stupidly, but get most sp.

[NoMX]

Currently, SE is attempting to lower the party size from 15 to 8. This is a much needed change, as killing NM's with anything more than 8 people is just embarrassingly easy anyways. Hell, it's embarrassingly easy with only 8. They also mentioned they will make NM's EASIER once party size is lowered... That'll suck. They're not even a challenge now.

Now, to my main point for posting; allowing anybody to attack a monster makes max party size irrelevant. They want to make the game balanced around either 4, or 8 man parties but they want to allow anyone and everyone to attack any monster at any time? Well... Then you got twenty parties of 8 out there wailing on an NM... It's now broked. And don't pretend it won't happen if they remove the claim system.

[InuraBera]

Now, to my main point for posting; allowing anybody to attack a monster makes max party size irrelevant. They want to make the game balanced around either 4, or 8 man parties but they want to allow anyone and everyone to attack any monster at any time? Well... Then you got twenty parties of 8 out there wailing on an NM... It's now broked. And don't pretend it won't happen if they remove the claim system.

It is important to remember that end-game content wont all be Nortorious Monsters in the open world, if you had been following at all you would see that much of it will be moving towards 'instanced' content (love it or loathe it) so it becomes a somewhat moot point.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...816df108bbfbf4

Read through the diagram there for some interesting stuff.

I feel that Notorious Monsters will end up quite like 'Rare Spawns' as in World of Warcraft, or 'world bosses' - a challenge with minor loot rewards for everyone involved, but not necessarily meant to be particularly well organised minus basic instructions, such as don't let it step on you, where as the Instances and such let them design an interesting encounter free from the distractions of other players and with challenges within made specifically for your eight man group.

It is also important to note that four man parties are to be the 'norm' with eight man being 'large', or 'Alliance (FFXI I believe?)'/'Raid' (WoW terminology).

It is very important to realise that what you are playing at the moment is not what you are going to be playing once all these changes and additions are in, even the Combat System is going to be changed completely, and that will have wide ranging repercussions. Don't try and compare it to what you have at the moment, but instead by combining what we have learned and the possible direction of content and the game.