Multi-hit Weapons...yes or no?

[KeyserSoze]

I would definitely like to see many "types" of multi-hit weapons implemented for all kinds of different classes/jobs. And I agree, don't make them as difficult to obtain as relics in XI (or Kraken Club, for that matter). I'm thinking more along the lines of obtaining the Mercurial Kris, or the Soboro Sukehiro; if you put in at least moderate time and effort you can obtain one. I am also in favor of an "Ultima Set" that would be much harder to obtain, I mean, this is a game we plan on playing for some years. It's nice to have long term goals.

[Duelle]

Only on the condition that they're actually balanced and not instant musts for anyone dual wielding. Otherwise, no.

[Lienn]

Only on the condition that they're actually balanced and not instant musts for anyone dual wielding. Otherwise, no.

This would be a primary point. If they reach to a point of adding multi-hit weapons, they MUST be primary weapon only, not working off-hand.

Multi-hit weapons and gear with haste effects were IMO the 2 worst additions to FFXI ever. They were so bad that they generate nerf to certain jobs when using it in certain situations (like KC DRK having souleater nerfed ot the haste cap).

I'd rather having balanced content that can be used properly at all situations. Specially because we have different basic actions here...just imagine a multihit weapon being comboed with stuff like Full Thrust, that already generates enhanced TP gain or to actions like Nature Fury...nature fury with multi hit would become pretty much a shotgun if it start doing multiple hits to anyone in is damage cone...

And then people weould say "make it multihit only if used with the starting basic attack, just like ARCs already do with multishot". And that's it...when you say this you will be confirming that its unbalanced because you're restricting it to a specific situation (of course multishot is unbalanced...or else it wouldn't deal more damage than barrage, that is supposed to be ARC's best WS...it shouldn't tho...maybe after attribute balancing WS's will start receiving MOD effect from attributes so they can remove this restriction from multishot/trifurcate).

[Gath]

This would be a primary point. If they reach to a point of adding multi-hit weapons, they MUST be primary weapon only, not working off-hand.

Multi-hit weapons and gear with haste effects were IMO the 2 worst additions to FFXI ever. They were so bad that they generate nerf to certain jobs when using it in certain situations (like KC DRK having souleater nerfed ot the haste cap).

I'd rather having balanced content that can be used properly at all situations. Specially because we have different basic actions here...just imagine a multihit weapon being comboed with stuff like Full Thrust, that already generates enhanced TP gain or to actions like Nature Fury...nature fury with multi hit would become pretty much a shotgun if it start doing multiple hits to anyone in is damage cone...

And then people weould say "make it multihit only if used with the starting basic attack, just like ARCs already do with multishot". And that's it...when you say this you will be confirming that its unbalanced because you're restricting it to a specific situation (of course multishot is unbalanced...or else it wouldn't deal more damage than barrage, that is supposed to be ARC's best WS...it shouldn't tho...maybe after attribute balancing WS's will start receiving MOD effect from attributes so they can remove this restriction from multishot/trifurcate).

DRK was still completely OP when it came to that fact, and the only reason they nerfed SE is because it made AV too easy for a high-tier shell who had multiple Haste capped KC DRKs, they also added a few immunities to him on that factor as well.

[Lienn]

Exactly. But balanced features does not need nerf. Haste (spell) never needed nerf...souleater neither...it was the reckless addition of certain equipments, including the infamous KC and haste gear, that brought this issue up.

Its what i was talking in my first post here...if they add multihit weaps in as an option for very evasive mobs (instead of doing one swing og 100 you do 2 of 50, 3 of 33, etc so you would have a much better chance of getting some TP of that mob per attack) it would be perfectly rational and balanced since here TP is gain is based on damage dealt so in the end all options would generate the very same TP (i don't like this TP system tho...i'd rather having an fixed TP gain based on basic action used...like having one that deal more damage or has secundary effect generating less TP, basic attack having a balanced amount of TP generated for the standard dps and actions that generate improved TP dealing less damage).

But its that thing...we are all assuming an auto-attack similar to FFXI. Depending of the attack speed of this AA the addition of multi-hit weapons would become pointless TP-wise.

[Gath]

I agree that a weapon like the KC was ridiculous and did make some aspects un-enjoyable because it made SE nerf certain features, but weapons like the M.Kris or the Joy Toy were not OP, they added an extra attack that helped warriors before they would get a ridill or THFs with their multiple hit attacks they already had, and THF's were not OP, nor were Jugg/Ridill WARs, KC's, however, were.

[MeowyWowie]

K.Club was only OP when used with SE+BW, and I suppose on Rangers as well to an extent. Outside of that, KC was a toy more than anything. It was never used on any challenging content nor in EXP/Merit PTs (Minus Rangers) because you were essentially gimping yourself because of its extremely low dmg rating. Not to mention that most melee classes had terrible club skill resulting in less than adequate accuracy on anything over Even Match.

Even when used in the situations where it was actually better than other options, it was still only marginally better. Anyone who owned one will tell you this. The main reasons people wanted them was for novelty, fun, nothing else to their spend gil on, or for KC DRK zergs.

If SE implemented another KC-like weapon in the game without something like Souleater, then the balance wouldn't be an issue and I would welcome its addition with open arms.

Edit: The same can be said for M. kris. Joytoy and Ridill were the only 2 that were actually worth getting if you wanted to increase your damage output in normal, party based situations. And after the 2 hand weapon buff, Ridill was no longer that great, leaving only Joytoy worth getting.

Soul Eater aside, the rest were just for fun.

[Redbert]

Yes please

[MeowyWowie]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the Rune Chopper DRK builds that lead to haste caps? I don't remember any caps before that.

Rune chopper was cheap and available to just about everyone, and the gear builds were very similar. The difference was, K club maxed out at about 270ish a hit (I was Mithra with 8/8 HP merits so HP wasn't as high as Galka) while Rune chopper could easily top 400+ per hit, making it much more powerful than K club zerg. Not to mention the extra haste you got just from having Rune Chopper equipped.

Note: I quit when the cap was still 75 so the above info is definitely not still true.

[KeyserSoze]

Man, I have some fond memories camping Charybdis. I must've tanked him 25-30 times on my Ninja helping different people obtain their Joyeuse. Met a lot of great people in the process. We need goals and challenges like these to bring us together!

On another note, I really don't think the Kraken Club was too Op'd. It was really only the one situation with DRK's and SE (occasionally BW). Other than that, it's what MeowyWowie said, "they are just a toy."

EDIT: I've seen some wicked WHM burn parties in KRT with K clubs as well. Very cool stuff.