PLD Negotiation (Vs WAR)

[glen7187]

You can't count 25% HP due to damage mitigation AND 25% healing bonus for Shield Oath
So it's not 25% HP + 25% healing bonus > 25% HP + 20% healing bonus

It's 25% HP (Shield Oath) < 25% HP (Defiance HP bonus) + 20% healing (Defiance healing buff, no Rage V needed in 2.1)

So, Leiron's calculation was wrong and he should apologise to VoxInaBox.

This was covered by math in many other posts in the forums. Defiance needs to have 25% healing in order for it to EQUAL Shield Oath. Otherwise, Shield Oath is better (by a little bit)

[Zoomie]

So, Leiron's calculation was wrong and he should apologise to VoxInaBox.

You're not thinking it through man.

If a PLD takes a hit for 200 they will take 160 damage (200*.8 = 160). Requiring only a heal of 160 to fully mend the damage from a 200 damage attack.

If a WAR takes a hit for 200 they eat the full 200 damage. They are now 200 HP down and need to be healed to full. However if a heal of 160 is applied just like the paladin got your 20% healing buff only brings it up to 192 (160*1.2 = 192) leaving this poor warrior 8hp short of full.

The point being that PLD hp is worth more than WAR hp simply due to Shield Oath's built in mitigation which results in a "effective" healing buff.

Sadly your opinion based upon nothing but your own opinion is wrong and you should apologize to Leiron.

[Reynhart]

You're not thinking it through man.

If a PLD takes a hit for 200 they will take 160 damage (200*.8 = 160). Requiring only a heal of 160 to fully mend the damage from a 200 damage attack.

If a WAR takes a hit for 200 they eat the full 200 damage. They are now 200 HP down and need to be healed to full. However if a heal of 160 is applied just like the paladin got your 20% healing buff only brings it up to 192 (160*1.2 = 192) leaving this poor warrior 8hp short of full.

The point being that PLD hp is worth more than WAR hp simply due to Shield Oath's built in mitigation which results in a "effective" healing buff.

Sadly your opinion based upon nothing but your own opinion is wrong and you should apologize to Leiron.

You could be right, if being "full life" DID matter. You don't need to be full life, you just want NOT to drop to 0.
So your 5000 HP PLD took 160 and is now at 5840, but your 6250 (5000*1.25 for Defiance) HP WAR is still at 6050 HP after taking 200.

[Gilthas]

You could be right, if being "full life" DID matter. You don't need to be full life, you just want NOT to drop to 0.
So your 5000 HP PLD took 160 and is now at 5840, but your 6250 (5000*1.25 for Defiance) HP WAR is still at 6050 HP after taking 200.

Umm...

Replace full life with "X amount of HP needed to not drop to 0 in the next attack" and the math is exactly the same.

[Zoomie]

SNIP

You're missing it again and its right there in your own math.

A 5000hp PLD takes a hit for 3000 (3000*8 = 2400) and has 2600hp left. PLD gets healed for 1000 which puts him at 3600 (72%hp)
A 6250hp WAR takes a hit for 3000 and has 3250hp left. WAR gets healed for 1000 (1000*1.20 = 1200) which puts him at 4450 (71%hp)

Lets repeat this as bosses don't stop at one hit!

Our now 3600hp PLD takes 2400dmg and has 1200 hp left and is then healed for 1000 leaving them at 2200 (44%hp)

Our now 4450hp WAR takes 3000dmg and has 1450 left and is then healed for 1200 leaving them at 2650 (42%hp)

Sadly the boss comes at us once again and now hits us for exactly 2650...

The PLD takes 2120 (2650*.8) and limps away with 80hp.

The WAR dies...

Effective healing is a thing as the disparity becomes larger and larger as the fight goes on. If the warrior had been healed an extra 5% each time they would have lived with 100hp. Magically that 100hp the WAR needed to live is exactly equal to our living PLD's 80hp + shield oath mitigation! The point being that WAR/PLD eHP is exactly the same but WAR's require 5% more healing to maintain said eHP.

/removes magician's hat

[Dhex]

-

You're better at quick math than me; /sulk.

[Reynhart]

You're missing it again and its right there in your own math.

A 5000hp PLD takes a hit for 3000 (3000.8 = 2400) and has 2600hp left. PLD gets healed for 1000 which puts him at 3600 (72%hp)
A 6250hp WAR takes a hit for 3000 and has 3250hp left. WAR gets healed for 1000 (1000*1.20 = 1200) which puts him at 4450 (71%hp)

Lets repeat this as bosses don't stop at one hit!

Our now 3600hp PLD takes 2400dmg and has 1200 hp left and is then healed for 1000 leaving them at 2200 (44%hp)

Our now 4450hp WAR takes 3000dmg and has 1450 left and is then healed for 1200 leaving them at 2650 (42%hp)

Sadly the boss comes at us once again and now hits us for exactly 2650...

The PLD takes 2120 (2650*.8) and limps away with 80hp.

The WAR dies...
/removes magician's hat

Why do you all put aside the fact that WAR is supposed to heal itself ? And besides, with the next update, it will mitigate some damage too, with average cooldowns shorter than PLD.

[AppleGrocer]

Usually I don't agree with callous remarks like Leiron's, but yeah. Your wrong Reyhart.

Look over the math posted above again.

[Leiron]

Usually I don't agree with callous remarks like Leiron's, but yeah. Your wrong Reyhart.

Look over the math posted above again.

You know, its really unintentional most of the time.
Whenever I speak, I sound a lot calmer and nicer =(

[glen7187]

Here's that post:

You're neglecting the fact that that 20% Healing needs to be applied to a 25% bigger Health pool.

+20% damage resistance:
Starts at 5000 HP.
Receives a 2000 damage hit, takes 1600 damage.
= 3400 HP (68% of max)
Receives a 1000 HP heal. Gains 1000 HP.
= 4400 HP (88% of max)


+25% HP and +20% healing:
Starts at 6250 HP.
Receives a 2000 damage hit, takes 2000 damage.
4250 HP (68% of max)
Receives a 1000 HP heal. Gains 1200 HP.
= 5450 HP (87.2% of max)

PLD actually still have a slight edge because the +Healing is only 20%, not 25%
But realistically the performance is now so close as to be effectively equal in normal gameplay.



Granted.

(My point was they were stripping the +Healing from additional Wrath Stacks and adding it to Baseline Defiance!)