PLD Negotiation (Vs WAR)

[VoxInaBox]

Am I missing something here? Inner Beast on a 2.5 GCD? cuz I though it was available only with 5 wrath stacks.. so at minimum, 7 moves to be able to use it a second time, HS (no stack)> IB> SS (stack 1)> BB (stack2)> HS (no stack)> SS (stack3)> BB (stack4)>HS (no stack)> SS (stack5)> IB.. So ~ 15 seconds before a second use of IB.. so there's an extra 5 seconds on top of the 4 that it wouldn't be up.. that being said.. I personally don't like the changes to inner beast, but nothin I can do about it 'cept adjust playing style a bit too accommodate incoming changes.

The "missing" part is "Maybe a 4 second time frame where it won't be up." Considering it is up for 6 seconds, and it takes (2.5*6)-6= 9s with the standard combo, but with them thinking about letting over power add stacks it will be (2.5*5)-6= 6.5s with over power. This is with zero skill speed.

Either way. it's making the class with the highest hp also have the same or near the same damage mitigation as the PLD. PLD doesn't have near as much hp or str as a WAR does, and the damage mitigation was the only thing that made up for it stat wise.


WAR aren't Under powered. People just didn't want to be a WAR because they thought it was going to be a DPS class when it first came out.

[Raminax]

o-o I don't think there's a single dung in the game that a tank can be "carried" through.

Only one boss in the game can be "carried through" as a tank and that is Ifirit.

But I like how you respond to a diverse opinion with an insult. 8D stay classy.

You'd be amazed at how easily dungeons can be completed with a good healer and two good dps alongside those glorious Paladins doing nothing but Rage of Halone and losing enmity all over the place.

Trust me, I've been there.

As for the OP... Meh. Kind of looks silly to demand more to be "equal" when Warriors are essentially being brought up to a Paladin's level (equality) in the first place. That'd just repeat the cycle of Paladins being superior in all aspects of tanking and Warriors being less desirable. :/

[Grembo]

o-o I don't think there's a single dung in the game that a tank can be "carried" through.

Only one boss in the game can be "carried through" as a tank and that is Ifirit.

But I like how you respond to a diverse opinion with an insult. 8D stay classy.

A diverse opinion? There's plenty of time to silence ADS in turn 2, if that makes me an ass i'm sorry I guess?

Seriously though, when it's the PLD's turn to silence all they are doing is stood waiting for high voltage and to provoke the boss. If you can't hit it at all and the DPS are having to drop their damage to take care of silence duty then your team is cutting you an awful lot of slack

[Baci]

Your seriously have no clue how balancing works.

[darzok]

I think the Op thinks All Tanks are equal, but some Tanks(PLD) are more equal than others.

[Teleniel]

I'm going to start by saying you have never played a Warrior. You have no idea how Wraith gets built or spent, you also seem to think that GCD action buffs should balance with oGCD Pld buffs.

For two things you mentioned those at least make sense.
1: Faster animation time on Spirit (or just have silence hit at the start of animation)
2: Circle of Scorn, I wouldn't mind if it gave extra enmity on blind targets and it at least links your attacks together, which Paladin is lacking.

[Devils]

Inner Beast
- Due to overall balance changes, HP absorbed by damage dealt will be reduced from 300% to 100%
- Damage taken will be reduced by 20% for 6 seconds.​
Response: Denied. Damage mitigation is a PLD's thing. Keep this move the way it is.
Reasoning: It's on a 2.5 Global cooldown and lasts 6 seconds meaning it can be up almost always. Maybe a 4 second time frame where it won't be up. This move is Shield oath only without having to lose damage for it.

You make my brain hurt. I won't go over all the dribble that came out of your mouth but will just use this as an example of someone talking about something they know nothing about. If you played WAR even just a little then you would know that the buff from Inner Beast can't "almost always be up" You have to have wrath stacks to use it. Our main rotation to keep threat is Heavy Swing (does not give wrath)-Skull Sunder (one stack)-Butchers Block (one stack). So one full "hate rotation" and you build 2 wrath stacks.

Now here is where the math gets complicated so stay with me ok, we need 5 stacks to us Inner Beast. So that means we have to go through 3 full rotations to get enough stacks to use Inner Beast (well not 3 FULL rotations but you wouldn't want to let Butchers Block go to waste on the last rotation). So a 2.5 GCD with 3 moves per rotation equals 7.5 seconds per rotation. So you have to do three of them and now you are looking at having the damage reduction from Inner Beast every 23 seconds or so. So that means that if you use Inner Beast every time it is up then you will the debuff up about 25% of the time. Which also means you couldn't use you wrath stack for anything else except Inner Beast........

So please explain how this is

Shield oath only without having to lose damage for it.

?

God damn it now I am all worked up at work and have to respond to this as well

Vengeance- This skill will also reduce damage taken by 30%.
Response: Approved.
In return: Damage Mitigation is a PLD's thing. Also PLD have really crappy cross class skills. I can approve this on the condition that Vengeance become a PLD cross class skill.

So you want to have another HUGE damage reduction that gets cross classed to PLD? The whole F'ing point to all of this was to get WAR on par with PLD, it seems to me you are wanting to take the idea of being relatively equal in the tanking world and making the PLD OP again.

Response: Denied. Damage Mitigation was designed to be a PLD's place. Not a WAR. WARs are designed to have more hp and str than a PLD. Their "mitigation" is life steal.

Ok, that theory works when you are tanking lower level dungeons but as it has been talked about TO DEATH, the idea of having a larger HP pool and "life steal" as our mitigation just does not work at high levels of play. The hits come so fast and hard that our "life steal" is like pissing in the ocean. Being able to heal your self is useless if you can't survive the encounter.

Now don't get me wrong, I wish SE would have went a different route with WAR and have us as a true "blood tank". Something along the lines of having Inner Beast, Butchers Block, and Storms Path have a much higher potency (or just ignore the damage reduction of Defiance) and a combo bonus of 300% of the damage creates a "blood shield" that surrounds us and absorbs incoming damage while healing us for 100% of the damage done. Then you wouldn't have to have all these traits of "increased emnity" floating around Obviously the numbers would have to be tweaked but that would be our "form" of mitigation while still having our gameplay totally different than PLD. So we could then be a proactive tank. I haven't seen an MMO yet that having a reactive tanking class worked out well.

[AmyNeudaiz]

o-o I don't think there's a single dung in the game that a tank can be "carried" through.

Only one boss in the game can be "carried through" as a tank and that is Ifirit.

But I like how you respond to a diverse opinion with an insult. 8D stay classy.

I've been in lots of coil groups where a tank got carried, your point there is moot

[Leonus]

Looks like the OP wants to keep pld on top of war instead of sharing the spotlight with a co-star.

[Vactus]

I dont play PLD and never will, but I could see them hastening the animation of Spirits. The rest... LOL!!?!!