PLD Negotiation (Vs WAR)

[Traek]

Here's that post:

I think we might have to have every tank who posts in the tank forums put the math in their sigs so people will stop arguing under false assumptions between Shield Oath and Defiance. Its usually the beginning of half the bad posts/topics in the tanking section.

[glen7187]

I think we might have to have every tank who posts in the tank forums put the math in their sigs so people will stop arguing under false assumptions between Shield Oath and Defiance. Its usually the beginning of half the bad posts/topics in the tanking section.

lol I couldn't agree more!

[Reynhart]

The logic ?
Simple:
Shield Oath effect is reducing damage by 20%. It's basically 25% more eHP.
Defiance gives you 25% more HP, it's basically 25% more eHP.

So, for the same hit, PLD and WAR lose the same ratio of HP, providing they have the same base HP (Which is wrong, even if the difference is slim)

Example :
PLD HP = 5000
WAR HP = 5000
incoming damage = 1000

PLD gets hit for 800 with Shield Oath : 5000 - 800 = 4200 HP remaining HP (84% HP)
WAR uses Defiance and take the hit : 5000*1.25 = 6250 HP - 1000 = 5250 HP remaining (84% HP)

Now, for the healing part, Shield Oath doesn't give any bonus.
Let's say the healer toss a Cure for 400 HP. He need two Cures to replenish the PLD's HP pool
As for the WAR those two Cures won't heal 400 HP, but for 480. Indeed, it won't bring the WAR back to full Life but missing 40HP, but you can't put aside the WAR other means to Cure himself with Storm's Path, or even Inner Beast.

[Traek]

The logic ?

Please read glen7187's post quoting Maelwys. You are wrong Reyn.

[Lemon8or]

The logic ?
Simple:
Shield Oath effect is reducing damage by 20%. It's basically 25% more eHP.
Defiance gives you 25% more HP, it's basically 25% more eHP.

So, for the same hit, PLD and WAR lose the same ratio of HP, providing they have the same base HP (Which is wrong, even if the difference is slim)
But, to recover those HP, healers needs 20% more healing power to bring back the PLD to full life.

Not so simple a caveman can do it it seems. Just look at the math instead of arguing just for the sake of arguing. You are wrong.

[Zoomie]

Blaa Blaa Blaa

No one is saying that shield oath LITERALLY buffs healing done to Paladins. However by YOUR OWN admission healing a paladin to full takes less healing than it does to heal said warrior to full despite the warrior having 20% increased healing taken.

"Effective" healing bonus. Not actual green numbers equaling hit points healed rather the value or "worth" of said numbers. When a healer heals a paladin for 160 those 160hp are worth more than the 192hp that the SAME heal would do to a warrior. I'm not sure how much more clear this can be made.

The entire point of saying that shield oath has an effective, EFFECTIVE not LITERAL, healing buff is to combat people like you who point out that the 20% healing bonus on defiance somehow makes it better or even on par with shield oath.

[AppleGrocer]

You have it backwards... and still wrong.

Just look at the math man. LOOK AT IT PLEASE!

[TaneshimaPopura]

Been there, was wrong too. It takes time to see it but I'm sure you will see it. A 200 damage reduced by 20% will deal 160 Dmg but you cannot heal 200 DMG with 20% more healing from 160 cause it will only heal 192HP. Your 8 HP deficit is the 5%.

[Dhex]

My mah math was slightly off.

eHp on WAR and PLD post-patch is equal - it is/was not equal pre-patch due to Wrath Mechanics being tied to the healing bonus.

[Gilthas]

Shield Oath PLD HP: 5250

WAR Defiance: 6300 (WAR HP: 5250)

Post-patch*

DMG 6300

PLD takes -> 6300 - (6300 x .2) or 6300 - 1260 = 5040 DMG taken.

No buffs PLD HP: 210 @ 4% HP
Rampart PLD HP: 1218 @ 20% HP

No buffs WAR HP: 0 @ 0% HP
With Inner Beast buff - WAR HP: 1260 @ 20% HP

I knew something was wrong here. You need to multiply the WAR's HP by 1.25, not 1.2

Unless you were making some other point.

6562 - 6300 = 262 or 3% (feel better?)

eHP wise WAR/PLD are almost equal post-patch is all I'm saying - even more so with that little correction. PLD still has the benefit of everything is "on-demand" whereas WAR is "time-it-right".

Not sure why there's threads asking for changes to PLD.

Either way the math /is/ relatively accurate from a % vs % standpoint and the higher the damage climbs the more you prioritize the PLD over WAR from an ease of use standpoint. Even post-patch.

If by relatively accurate you mean "incorrectly made it seem that Paladins can survive a hit that would kill a Warrior", yeah, I guess its relatively accurate.

If a Paladin and a Warrior have the same base HP, same defense relevant stats and are using Shield Oath and Defiance, anything* that kills a Warrior will also kill a Paladin.

*it might be possible that this isn't true depending on how damage and HP values are rounded, but it will never be a difference as huge as the missing 262 HP on the Warrior.