PLD Negotiation (Vs WAR)

[Leiron]

Please explain

Zoomie already covered it, which you promptly declared as wrong without any attempt to make refutation of the logic other than just asserting your argument.
So why am I going to bother with someone who has no intent of changing their mind in the first place?

My calculation is correct.

[Baci]

Your seriously have no clue how balancing works.

[darzok]

I think the Op thinks All Tanks are equal, but some Tanks(PLD) are more equal than others.

[Teleniel]

I'm going to start by saying you have never played a Warrior. You have no idea how Wraith gets built or spent, you also seem to think that GCD action buffs should balance with oGCD Pld buffs.

For two things you mentioned those at least make sense.
1: Faster animation time on Spirit (or just have silence hit at the start of animation)
2: Circle of Scorn, I wouldn't mind if it gave extra enmity on blind targets and it at least links your attacks together, which Paladin is lacking.

[Devils]

Inner Beast
- Due to overall balance changes, HP absorbed by damage dealt will be reduced from 300% to 100%
- Damage taken will be reduced by 20% for 6 seconds.​
Response: Denied. Damage mitigation is a PLD's thing. Keep this move the way it is.
Reasoning: It's on a 2.5 Global cooldown and lasts 6 seconds meaning it can be up almost always. Maybe a 4 second time frame where it won't be up. This move is Shield oath only without having to lose damage for it.

You make my brain hurt. I won't go over all the dribble that came out of your mouth but will just use this as an example of someone talking about something they know nothing about. If you played WAR even just a little then you would know that the buff from Inner Beast can't "almost always be up" You have to have wrath stacks to use it. Our main rotation to keep threat is Heavy Swing (does not give wrath)-Skull Sunder (one stack)-Butchers Block (one stack). So one full "hate rotation" and you build 2 wrath stacks.

Now here is where the math gets complicated so stay with me ok, we need 5 stacks to us Inner Beast. So that means we have to go through 3 full rotations to get enough stacks to use Inner Beast (well not 3 FULL rotations but you wouldn't want to let Butchers Block go to waste on the last rotation). So a 2.5 GCD with 3 moves per rotation equals 7.5 seconds per rotation. So you have to do three of them and now you are looking at having the damage reduction from Inner Beast every 23 seconds or so. So that means that if you use Inner Beast every time it is up then you will the debuff up about 25% of the time. Which also means you couldn't use you wrath stack for anything else except Inner Beast........

So please explain how this is

Shield oath only without having to lose damage for it.

?

God damn it now I am all worked up at work and have to respond to this as well

Vengeance- This skill will also reduce damage taken by 30%.
Response: Approved.
In return: Damage Mitigation is a PLD's thing. Also PLD have really crappy cross class skills. I can approve this on the condition that Vengeance become a PLD cross class skill.

So you want to have another HUGE damage reduction that gets cross classed to PLD? The whole F'ing point to all of this was to get WAR on par with PLD, it seems to me you are wanting to take the idea of being relatively equal in the tanking world and making the PLD OP again.

Response: Denied. Damage Mitigation was designed to be a PLD's place. Not a WAR. WARs are designed to have more hp and str than a PLD. Their "mitigation" is life steal.

Ok, that theory works when you are tanking lower level dungeons but as it has been talked about TO DEATH, the idea of having a larger HP pool and "life steal" as our mitigation just does not work at high levels of play. The hits come so fast and hard that our "life steal" is like pissing in the ocean. Being able to heal your self is useless if you can't survive the encounter.

Now don't get me wrong, I wish SE would have went a different route with WAR and have us as a true "blood tank". Something along the lines of having Inner Beast, Butchers Block, and Storms Path have a much higher potency (or just ignore the damage reduction of Defiance) and a combo bonus of 300% of the damage creates a "blood shield" that surrounds us and absorbs incoming damage while healing us for 100% of the damage done. Then you wouldn't have to have all these traits of "increased emnity" floating around Obviously the numbers would have to be tweaked but that would be our "form" of mitigation while still having our gameplay totally different than PLD. So we could then be a proactive tank. I haven't seen an MMO yet that having a reactive tanking class worked out well.

[Leonus]

Looks like the OP wants to keep pld on top of war instead of sharing the spotlight with a co-star.

[Exstal]

Now don't get me wrong, I wish SE would have went a different route with WAR and have us as a true "blood tank". Something along the lines of having Inner Beast, Butchers Block, and Storms Path have a much higher potency (or just ignore the damage reduction of Defiance) and a combo bonus of 300% of the damage creates a "blood shield" that surrounds us and absorbs incoming damage while healing us for 100% of the damage done. Then you wouldn't have to have all these traits of "increased emnity" floating around Obviously the numbers would have to be tweaked but that would be our "form" of mitigation while still having our gameplay totally different than PLD. So we could then be a proactive tank. I haven't seen an MMO yet that having a reactive tanking class worked out well.

Please stop trying to take Dark Knight's role.

[Devils]

Please stop trying to take Dark Knight's role.

So how else would propose a blood tank?

[Vactus]

I dont play PLD and never will, but I could see them hastening the animation of Spirits. The rest... LOL!!?!!

[Lemon8or]

Your points make no sense at all. Not like they need your approval in the first place. You clearly have no idea how to play warrior at end-game. How is changes on overpower related to Spirits Within???? You just run out of things to balk at. Warriors do not have more HP than PLD. They have same or less eHP that they have to make up with their skills to self-heal. So no, that wasn't part of their "mitigation" to begin with. 10% healing difference is pretty big to make up and then you guys have all the mitigation CD which is why Warriors are in a bad place currently. Also, vengeance, so you're not happy that we get 1 good CD while you have 4 (Rampart, Sentinel, Bulwark, Hallowed Ground) so you want our CD too?
If Bulwark is gonna be 20s 120sCD, I want it nerfed to 20% to be "on par with Thrill of Battle" (even though it's really not on par). Thrill of Battle is a good defensive CD but you have to communicate with your healer so they don't heal you over the maximum normal HP. Convincing your healer to not do that is sometimes not easy as they like to top your HP off and when they do, your mitigation is a moot point.
Inner Beast won't almost always be up. You don't need to do squat for Shield Oath while we have to manage combos and wrath stacks to even use it. How does Steel Cyclone changes related to Rage of Halone? It's not good enough that you have 1 combo with lemme see, 5x threat multipler AND reduce target's strength by 10% that you want even more potency? Your proposal is unreasonable at best.