PLD Negotiation (Vs WAR)

[SpookyGhost]

The WAR changes are to bring WAR up to PLD's level. If, by consequence, for every buff WAR gets you also buff PLD the imbalance remains the same. To negotiate you need the facts, and you clearly don't have them.

[JeTaisNoobie]

Pfft, "in return..."

[VoxInaBox]

eh, can't blame I guy for trying.

[TurboSol]

Inner Beast
- Due to overall balance changes, HP absorbed by damage dealt will be reduced from 300% to 100%
- Damage taken will be reduced by 20% for 6 seconds.​
Response: Denied. Damage mitigation is a PLD's thing. Keep this move the way it is.
Reasoning: It's on a 2.5 Global cooldown and lasts 6 seconds meaning it can be up almost always. Maybe a 4 second time frame where it won't be up. This move is Shield oath only without having to lose damage for it.

Am I missing something here? Inner Beast on a 2.5 GCD? cuz I though it was available only with 5 wrath stacks.. so at minimum, (not taking into consideration Infuriate), 7 moves to be able to use it a second time, HS (no stack)> IB> SS (stack 1)> BB (stack2)> HS (no stack)> SS (stack3)> BB (stack4)>HS (no stack)> SS (stack5)> IB.. So ~ 15 seconds before a second use of IB.. so there's an extra 5 seconds on top of the 4 that it wouldn't be up.. that being said.. I personally don't like the changes to inner beast, but nothin I can do about it 'cept adjust playing style a bit too accommodate incoming changes.

[VoxInaBox]

Am I missing something here? Inner Beast on a 2.5 GCD? cuz I though it was available only with 5 wrath stacks.. so at minimum, 7 moves to be able to use it a second time, HS (no stack)> IB> SS (stack 1)> BB (stack2)> HS (no stack)> SS (stack3)> BB (stack4)>HS (no stack)> SS (stack5)> IB.. So ~ 15 seconds before a second use of IB.. so there's an extra 5 seconds on top of the 4 that it wouldn't be up.. that being said.. I personally don't like the changes to inner beast, but nothin I can do about it 'cept adjust playing style a bit too accommodate incoming changes.

The "missing" part is "Maybe a 4 second time frame where it won't be up." Considering it is up for 6 seconds, and it takes (2.5*6)-6= 9s with the standard combo, but with them thinking about letting over power add stacks it will be (2.5*5)-6= 6.5s with over power. This is with zero skill speed.

Either way. it's making the class with the highest hp also have the same or near the same damage mitigation as the PLD. PLD doesn't have near as much hp or str as a WAR does, and the damage mitigation was the only thing that made up for it stat wise.


WAR aren't Under powered. People just didn't want to be a WAR because they thought it was going to be a DPS class when it first came out.

[Shinkyo]

it's making the class with the highest hp also have the same or near the same damage mitigation as the PLD.

Our higher HP pool isn't an advantage at all since War and Pld have the same eHP.
even with the buff we're still slightly short on eHP since Shield Oath = +25% ehp and +25% healing bonus. Defiance = +25 eHP and only +20% healing bonus.
Plus you have Blocks but that's fair for PLD to have a reasonable advantage in mitigation.

[Sylve]

Either way. it's making the class with the highest hp also have the same or near the same damage mitigation as the PLD. PLD doesn't have near as much hp or str as a WAR does, and the damage mitigation was the only thing that made up for it stat wise.

STOP!

Paladins still have Block, which warriors do not get. Warrior damage intake is going to be very skill dependent. But all the skill in the world wont save you from a large crit in Coil in those windows where our new DR effects go down, and we don't have any other DR skills in effect.


The boosted HP will mitigate those strings of downtime, so we don't get one shot for not pulling off a flawless rotation of overlapping Damage Reduction.
The increased Healing taken is there so Healers are restoring the same percentage of your Health Bar as a WAR or PLD, avoiding the WAR becoming a huge MP drain to try and get back to safety levels.

The way i see it, the PLD is still the premiere damage reduction Tank, as its DR effect is always on, with the cooldowns to burst out some very heavy reductions, while the WAR is now capable of reducing its damage taken in spikes. We were never really a "self heal" Tank because IB was so limited in its usability. Restoring 2k HP every 20 or so seconds isn't really effective healing, especially as the Tank is receiving external healing, most IB's went to waste as pointless overheal.
It was great when it saved your life, but if it was saving your life, something went wrong on your healers end.

[Leiron]

Either way. it's making the class with the highest hp also have the same or near the same damage mitigation as the PLD.

False.
Why?
Math

Shield oath= 20% mitigation
1/.8 = 1.25

Defiance= 25% hp buff

1.25 = 25% more hp = Shield Oath provides equivalent eHP to Defiance.
Another note

Shield oath provides a 25% indirect Healing bonus.
25% HP + 20% healing bonus < 25%hp + 25% healing bonus.
Defiance is behind.
Learn to math.

PLD doesn't have near as much hp or str as a WAR does, and the damage mitigation was the only thing that made up for it stat wise.

False, Paladin strength is very close.
Paladin eHP is higher than a War.
Base Hp is slightly lower b about 40 or so.

Math> you.

WAR aren't Under powered. People just didn't want to be a WAR because they thought it was going to be a DPS class when it first came out.

Wow you're better than Miss Cleo.
You can read people's minds and figure out exactly why they play a spec.
Oh wait no, you're just ignorant.

[Reynhart]

Shield oath provides a 25% indirect Healing bonus.

Please explain

[Zoomie]

Please explain

Due to a PLD's built in 20% DR a PLD's hit points are effectively worth more than 1.

If a PLD takes a hit for 200 they will take 160 damage (200*.8 = 160). Requiring only a heal of 160 to fully mend the damage from a 200 damage attack. Hense the "effective" healing bonus.