FFXIV has no class (Jobs vs Class)

[Zedine]

After level 30 it seems FFXIV has no need for classes. Maybe barely when you hit 30 when equipping your job isn't enough of a boost to lose 2 additional cross class abilities. But lets say after 35 when you have 3 cross class and 2 job abilities in addition to the job stat boost, it highly beats classes.
What I am curious about is if there is any need for classes after a certain point? I think SE wants us to use classes, if you notice the best weapons (Allagan) are class/job weapons while relic is only Job.

Maybe we are over looking something with only using jobs vs classes.

Or maybe its to pave the future for some new cross class abilities.

It seems right now the only use is for multiple jobs to share a common class, for example Scholar and Summoner, however I already feel this has issues as the stat allocation is bothersome to some people.

There is also no actual difference between a class and its job as it comes to defining its role. For example Archer has a song when it doesn't have to be a bard. I find that odd. If they add Ranger as a job to archer, then you will still always have a bard like ability.

If they released a Job, lets say Dark Knight, tied to Marauder class, it would be odd for it to have so many Tank class abilities and it not be a tank. Then we would be given the choice of choosing offensive stat boosts or defensive. And if they did make another class like a Red Mage along with Gladiator (both use sword and shield) I think 5 abilities are too little to distinguish it from its already established class. Especially with Gladiator, as it is pretty much a Paladin from the start, but I have other issues with paladin as it is.

As I see it it seems if a new Job is added it will be very difficult to attach it to a current role with out it being either a copy of the original role (new Gladiator Job will also Tank) or any new job will also come with a new class, for example Fencer class with Red Mage job with Conjurer and thaumaturge cross class. But if the latter is the case, why not just have jobs or just classes?

If the case is to be opposite roles (like SMN and SCH) that a new Job like Samurai, and Ninja come out, and they share a common class, then their class abilities need to not be definitive of their job. I see this issue with Marauder and warrior where its class abilities boost their job abilities. Or like Paladin where its Job abilities are negligible (except for maybe shield oath/Hallowed Ground) in defining it as its own job.

I also find it odd that jobs do not have any passive traits. Dragoon doesn't have any dragon killer effects, Paladins don't seem to be anything like a "holy warrior" that can strike down the undead. They have no use for MP besides flash really, since cure is a waste of time near end game. Protect? Stoneskin? Your healer has it and it is more effective. And even then Flash is a gladiator ability not a paladin one. the Oaths cost Mp but you cast it once and that's it usually.

I also find it odd for Archer to be a DPS and have a healer Limit, i know Bard is a support class, but archer? If they add ranger will his limit be a heal also? The class i think should be more separate tan its job to allow for changes like this.

An other issue I see coming would be stat allocation.

I like the stat boosts you get from allocating points but maybe we can have separate points for jobs and classes for the future (or SCH and SMN now) where 15 points are for the class and 15 for the job, then we have to pick what we want more carefully, and plan a little bit more.

I like the Class and Job system, I just wish it had more to build on. More to differentiate a job to a class. To be given a choice if I want to be a Gladiator, or if I want to be a Paladin. I want to be able to Play arcanist and say its different than summoner and scholar. Has anyone actually found a reason to be a class over a job, for anything post 35?

[Ryans]

As levels increase, there will be more differentiation between jobs and their base classes. I assume there won't be a lot of new additions to classes when levels increase, possibly additional traits or something of the like. Most of the new skills will come from jobs.

As for not using classes in the current game, they will most likely be what is used in PvP. Having 10 cross class abilities of your choice will make for some interesting PvP battles and actually add some diversity to characters.

[Zedine]

Well even after level 30 you still get class abilities and traits until 50. That is another thing i forgot to cover, jobs have no traits whatsoever. any passives for jobs seem to be tied to abilities or to the class itself.

I hope its more than just PvP as the gear will have morale there and there would be no point in going in with allagan also we would probably have new PvP abilities and wont need crossclass abilities much.

[Teleniel]

Having access to 10 cross-class abilities is very nice... however most-jobs get most of the class skills they would use without this.
I know that Marauder can support higher damage than War... and while we don't know the exact changes, I suspect that Archer will be able to do comparative/more than Bard.

Given actions like Sword/Shield Oath and Defiance it isn't out of the question for a enmity-suppression toggle skill that works for the tank classes if they are going to branch into DPS roles. Additional roles will take time to balance out with what already exists so be prepared that if/when more classes are added (or level cap is raised) that there will be a lot of class-tuning going on.

[Zedine]

I do agree with a lot of that but as it is now i want to DPS on my Gladiator*(edit) I still queue as a tank, regardless of how many DPS cross abilities I stack on. And all my combos that maximize damage will also maximize enmity as the more damage i deal the more enmity i will generate and the multiplier for my combo will just increase that. And I can equip things like quelling strikes but then that just limits how may cross abilities I can use again. not to mention loosing the stat boosts for the job stone being unequipped.

[Ryans]

Well even after level 30 you still get class abilities and traits until 50. That is another thing i forgot to cover, jobs have no traits whatsoever. any passives for jobs seem to be tied to abilities or to the class itself.

I hope its more than just PvP as the gear will have morale there and there would be no point in going in with allagan also we would probably have new PvP abilities and wont need crossclass abilities much.

My point was that I don't see classes getting too many more executable skills. If, say, Drg gets a 4th weaponskill added to a combo, I think it would come from the Drg job. If classes get new skills, they will probably be utility actions with things like Heavy or Dispel.

The problem with what you want comes in when they developed classes to be more solo based and Jobs to be party based and then proceeded to make all solo content laughably easy. That is why I only see classes being used for PvP. You will truly be fighting someone on equal grounds and being on a job could be the deciding factor in you losing. As for PvP skills, the only official word we have on what they will be is a sleep timer reduction and heavy/bind removal. I don't see how those would erase the need for cross class abilities like Foresight, Virus, and Featherfoot.

[silentwindfr]

you seems some important point, First ARR is the relaunch of FF14, second the class was already 50 at the first release... the jobs was added far after (1.21).
we need to be patient to see how jobs will evolve with the increase of level for see if class have any futur...

anyway, for me class are simply the basic and the jobs the advanced progression of your class.... then potentially, yes the class will barely match up with jobs in it speciality.

[Zedine]

My point was that I don't see classes getting too many more executable skills. If, say, Drg gets a 4th weaponskill added to a combo, I think it would come from the Drg job. If classes get new skills, they will probably be utility actions with things like Heavy or Dispel.

The problem with what you want comes in when they developed classes to be more solo based and Jobs to be party based and then proceeded to make all solo content laughably easy. That is why I only see classes being used for PvP. You will truly be fighting someone on equal grounds and being on a job could be the deciding factor in you losing. As for PvP skills, the only official word we have on what they will be is a sleep timer reduction and heavy/bind removal. I don't see how those would erase the need for cross class abilities like Foresight, Virus, and Featherfoot.

Some classes already have this like Gladiator, they can remove movement restrictions as well as make them invulnerable to knockback. I also dont see where i would give up a always active 20% dmg reduction for a chance to use feather foot for 15 seconds. As well as having hollowed ground which will give me 10 second immunity or Spirits within which is a silence off the global cool down which it seems no cross ability is off the global cool down.

you seems some important point, First ARR is the relaunch of FF14, second the class was already 50 at the first release... the jobs was added far after (1.21).
we need to be patient to see how jobs will evolve with the increase of level for see if class have any futur...

anyway, for me class are simply the basic and the jobs the advanced progression of your class.... then potentially, yes the class will barely match up with jobs in it speciality.

I agree the game is young and has been in development for a while and it is still changing. The thing is If you play Gladiator it pretty much is a Tank. So i dont see how they can add another job to it and it not be a tank. I like the SCH and SMN i think that worked well because ARC had a good balance, but i dont see that balance in a lot of classes to allow multiple jobs. So if it is linear Class->job then just make it 1 thing. This way people wont complain about stat allocation on SMn/SCH

[Ryans]

Some classes already have this like Gladiator, they can remove movement restrictions as well as make them invulnerable to knockback. I also dont see where i would give up a always active 20% dmg reduction for a chance to use feather foot for 15 seconds. As well as having hollowed ground which will give me 10 second immunity or Spirits within which is a silence off the global cool down which it seems no cross ability is off the global cool down.

You'll also be doing 20% less damage on already low damage job. As a Gladiator, I would most likely get Second Wind, Invigorate, Feint, Foresight, Virus, Raging Strikes, Featherfoot, Bloodbath, Swiftcast and Stoneskin to be able to do more damage while retaining a lot of defensive capabilities. But that is using the highest defense job as an example. The other jobs have much less innate survival skills. As a lancer, you would get all the same cross class abilities I just listed, plus some different ones since some came from lancer itself, and have a lot more abilities centered around keeping you alive.

[ufufu]

I do agree with a lot of that but as it is now i want to DPS on my paladin I still queue as a tank, regardless of how many DPS cross abilities I stack on. And all my combos that maximize damage will also maximize enmity as the more damage i deal the more enmity i will generate and the multiplier for my combo will just increase that. And I can equip things like quelling strikes but then that just limits how may cross abilities I can use again. not to mention loosing the stat boosts for the job stone being unequipped.

...you want to use a PLD to DPS? Really?