Overflowing stupidity

[scarebearz]

Maybe they saw it listed at ridiculous prices and thought it was selling for that much... but once they actually made it realized that no one is buying it for those rip off prices because it is junk and lowered the price to the cheap level it should be at because those products are junk. At that point, they probably realized they overpaid for those tomb mats, because they are used to make junk and got out of the market.

Anyone considering 2 star items to be "junk" 1-2 months ago, is really showing their knowledge.

Meanwhile, someone has stuff listed at 900k that is junk, but it might eventually sell to a gil buyer - if no other junk is listed at a better price.

Not surprisingly, at some point -said ripoff lister- comes to the board complaining that they got some kind of temporary ban because apparently they were involved with a transaction related to gil buyers....either that or is here whining that prices get slashed on this kind of junk and they aren't selling for those ripoff prices anymore.

Yes people should be suspended for selling items at the going rate on the in game market board, that makes a lot of sense.

There are always a lot of foolish people who believe "I can't afford that, so anyone who can must be a cheater!!"

Since when did gil-buyers Only buy expensive items anyway?

900k for a BiS ring (you may disagree, but many high end players believe they are BiS when melded) back when hardly anyone could make the and mats were over 30k each, is actually easily doable for "high end" players.

If a 50% mark up on items is a rip off, then you are likely being seriously ripped off for most things you buy irl xD

The only whining seems to be those calming prices were too high, it's all down to supply and demand etc, just because you could not afford something, does not make it overpriced.

The fact is there is a lot of stupidity on the mb, people selling at a loss will sell their items and prices will go up again, providing there is enough demand for the item.

[synaesthetic]

Simple solution is simple:

Charge listing fees.

No, seriously. Most MMOs require that you pay a listing fee (usually some small percentage of the item's list price) in order to place it up on the market. Do this whenever an item is listed and whenever the item's price is changed and you'll see the rampant undercutting grind to a rapid halt. The markets will stabilize very quickly and people might actually be able to make a decent profit from gathering and crafting.

[Kaonis]

FFXI's economy was so bad, nearly everyone engaged in gil buying at some point. Having listed prices allows undercutting, which has so far kept prices reasonable, removing the gil buying impetus for most.

I knew far more people who didn't buy gil and would qork to out camp gil sellers at NM camps then those who bought gil. I question this "nearly everyone" statement and demand some real numbers instead of hearsay.


And XI's economy was bad due to the fact that there was only a handful of crafters skilled enough to make the things people wanted, let alone people who would spend the time to do it, or have the resources to do it.

XIV has the complete opposite issue where resources and plentiful and there is probably a good 20X the amount of skilled crafters than XI ever saw. The undercutting is a serious issue because people will drop prices so low that for a crafter it's not worthwhile to make anything. I've seen so many markets ruined due to the reckless undercutting, where people will drop the price on something by a solid 50-75% and flood the market killing it for everyone else to net a profit worth our time.

[devwild]

Simple solution is simple:

Charge listing fees.

No, seriously. Most MMOs require that you pay a listing fee ...

Most MMOs don't have such ease of entry to multiple high level crafts. It's a solid idea but the market is already oversaturated, meaning the underselling would continue - people who list first will get screwed as they continue to either play leapfrog and take the fee hit, or try to wait it out and never sell. The fundamental problem of having a bunch of crafters out there who don't care about profits, don't value their gathering time (next person who says "I gathered it so my mats are free" gets smacked), or don't understand that halving the price and posting in volume does not double sales or improve your profits... all that would continue.

[Zigkid3]

Simple solution is simple:

Charge listing fees.

No, seriously. Most MMOs require that you pay a listing fee (usually some small percentage of the item's list price) in order to place it up on the market. Do this whenever an item is listed and whenever the item's price is changed and you'll see the rampant undercutting grind to a rapid halt. The markets will stabilize very quickly and people might actually be able to make a decent profit from gathering and crafting.

Just because other MMO's do this it does not make it a good idea. That is fallacious logic.
I have explained time and time again in numerous threads why imposing a listing fee is a bad idea.

[beth_ann]

The real problem is not the undercutting, which is crazy enough in itself as the sales of items can (depending on the server) go quickly. What irritates me is when you have crafters who undercut the price it costs to sell to an NPC! I take the time to research prices and try to come up with a fair market price based on what NPC are selling it for and try to align myself with current sellers, often charging more than the lowest seller and my items still sell at a steady rate. The items I refuse to sell are the ones that are below rock bottom. If only everyone would use 1 brain cell to understand that markets are about making money and not about undercutting everyone and their mother, then the flow of the market would improve. Thank you for letting me rant.

[beth_ann]

Simple solution is simple:

Charge listing fees.

No, seriously. Most MMOs require that you pay a listing fee (usually some small percentage of the item's list price) in order to place it up on the market. Do this whenever an item is listed and whenever the item's price is changed and you'll see the rampant undercutting grind to a rapid halt. The markets will stabilize very quickly and people might actually be able to make a decent profit from gathering and crafting.

Isn't that what they are doing w/the tax on each item. Personally I just up my price by the amount of the tax, but still, the tax is still there & is not gained back. In order to avoid that tax you have to be in a market that is not charging it at that particular month & since you are only able to have two retainers, you might not have that advantage unless you dismiss a retainer from one market & go to another. I don't have that kind of time or patience so I just go with the tax.

[stpetepiper]

This is what I don't get about alot of people who post on here... If you don't think that halving the price and moving more product can't gain more net profit... Then why would you have "buy one get one" sales on everything from mac & cheese to high end business suits. In real life, most businesses don't undercut each other by 1%, they generally do it on drastic levels like 25-50% to entice people to buy things that they might not generally buy. When you say people could just wait to sell their product for more to someone, you completely leave out the fact that they might be selling it to someone who would never buy it at your prices anyways.

[stpetepiper]

It's not like your always losing business from someone undercutting you, sometimes it's just people adding additional business to the economy. As a hypothetical (using totally made up prices) I go to look for Iron ingots, 10 stacks are listing 10,000g which is a price that I decide there is just no way I'm ever going to pay for whatever reason, and 1 stack is listed at 5k which I think is reasonable, the person selling at that price isn't stealing your business because I wasn't ever going to buy your product anyways. People seem to act like everytime they are undercut by a large amount that they are somehow losing a potential sale. Same w/ a 2 star item, if everyone values it at 500k, which i don't want to pay, and 1 person decides they are willing to take the cut for whatever reason, and sells it for 100k, I might buy it. I get my item, they get the money they wanted, you haven't lost a sale.

[Niwashi]

Most MMOs require that you pay a listing fee (usually some small percentage of the item's list price) in order to place it up on the market. Do this whenever an item is listed and whenever the item's price is changed and you'll see the rampant undercutting grind to a rapid halt.

That won't stop undercutting. If anything, it will increase it, as the person who has to spend money to even list an item is going to list it at a price they're practically guaranteed it will sell. (It may prevent people from listing items at ridiculously high prices, but that isn't much of an issue so long as we have transaction history to let everyone know just how ridiculous their prices are.)

The real (or at least the main) reason for listing fees isn't even about prices. They serve as a gold sink. The rate at which currency enters an economy has to roughly match the rate at which it leaves the economy, or there will be rampant inflation. In a game, currency keeps entering the economy every time anyone completes a quest or fate, kills a mob that drops gil, or sells loot to an NPC. That has to be matched by the rate it's spent on gear repair, message board fees, housing costs, and items purchased from NPC vendors. Just passing gil around from one player to another doesn't get it out of the economy.