Overflowing stupidity

[Ricon]

The ability to see how much items are listed for is killing crafting. In FFXI you bid based on past sells, here every idiot undercuts every item that has any volume of sales until they are losing money on each synth. I ask why?

[Zigkid3]

The ability for everyone to see how much items are listed for isn't "killing crafting", it's just allowing people to find what markets are or aren't profitable. If a market is profitable, people will continue to join to have a slice of the pie, eventually though enough people will join that market until profits are driven to 0 and it is no longer profitable, this is market efficiency. If a market is unprofitable, then people will leave that market until profits go back up to 0.

If you're trying to craft for an unprofitable market then it's that person who has overflowing stupidity, especially since the marketboard makes it easy for them to check the current market.

If you aren't making profit in one market, move to another. Ideally, things will have narrow profit margins.

Blind bidding is bad because it doesn't allow people to see what the actual market looks like, and no one can make proper decisions and it would hurt market efficiency and cause large price gaps.

A lot of these threads seem to be made by people who feel they are entitled to large profit margins.

[Ricon]

A blind market stops a market board with 100 items all 1 Gil lower than the next until the real value of an item is double the going rate. I don't feel we should have huge margins but in reality there maybe 10 items worth anything since all gear is replaced instantly.

This shouldn't have been a topic about the market as much as I should have said why are crafters so greedy they undercut until they lose money.

[JeniLinsky]

FFXI's economy was so bad, nearly everyone engaged in gil buying at some point. Having listed prices allows undercutting, which has so far kept prices reasonable, removing the gil buying impetus for most.

[peaches]

I understand the pain. Any time I see a price that is stable, if I make even two of that item to sell the price drops by about half in the course of a full day. I personally don't want to have to micromanage my items on the market every hour. I don't even undercut, I just match the price of the lowest item for jewelry or gear. Its why I've given up trying to make money by selling items like I did near the start of the game.

Its just too much work, and the price ends up less than the value of even just the cost of shards often, let alone the materials to make them as well as any profit margin.

[Darkwerk]

Currently BOTs disadvantage every legitimate player to a very large degree. Players who buy their gil also place a large disadvantage in addition to the BOT's.

Trying to act like the markets are working anything like a healthy real world market is so disingenuous as to give the appearance of defending RMT on the DL.

Drastic actions need to be taken, I assert that trying to treat a game world market as a IRL modern market is a fallacy.

Removing listing prices and history of sales would be more akin to a actual auction IMO.

[Jinrya-Geki]

I like seeing the prices. Playing guess-the-price made me hate the Auction house in XI. Having to go 10k for a breastplate which has sold for 10k for the last few weeks. "unable to get said item"... 11k, still unable to get it. 12k. Nope. 13k? No. 13001? "You got so-so for 13001"

I hated every single person who did that in auction house.

So glad stupid greedy people can't do that now.

[Highlanderx]

If you're trying to craft for an unprofitable market then it's that person who has overflowing stupidity, especially since the marketboard makes it easy for them to check the current market.
If you aren't making profit in one market, move to another. Ideally, things will have narrow profit margins.
Blind bidding is bad because it doesn't allow people to see what the actual market looks like, and no one can make proper decisions and it would hurt market efficiency and cause large price gaps.

A lot of these threads seem to be made by people who feel they are entitled to large profit margins.

Checking market is easy. But

For finished products, People undercut far too quickly and too much, regardless of what the market for the item at the time of posting. Within an hour or 2, you find your item going from profitable to worthless. To make any profit off them, they require constant micromanaging of prices, plus a stockpile cash to buy all the stupidly price items below yours.

Its the same with Mats, but they move more quickly, or people just buy and re-list them more often.

I have read quite a few most from under-cutters on other forums, they seem to come mostly in 3 types, the Jerks(who just want to tank the market, make people lose money and read about them complaining about it) , the Stupid (who think the default price listed is the suggested market price and not the NPC buy-back price) and people in a Hurry(they just want to move the item, with no care of what they get back, even if they can dump it at a vender for more)

A market where most times you get more money by pulling the item and selling it to an NPC, is not healthy.

Though I don't see going to blind bidding as an improvement.

Maybe limit the ability reprice/relist to once a day and raise the default price to what a NPC would sell the NQ version for.

[Kyana]

For finished products, People undercut far too quickly and too much, regardless of what the market for the item at the time of posting. Within an hour or 2, you find your item going from profitable to worthless.

That's true.
I always check which items are low in stock and sell for a good price, craft some (never do more than 3-5) and put them up.
Let's say the last 20 items sold for ~10k and there are none in stock. I put mine on for 10-12k. The next time I check, someone sells 20 pieces of same item for 6k...

Undercutting is ok to a certain degree, but why people sell so far under the normal price is beyond me.

Don't even get me started on finished products which are sold for less than the shards required to craft them.

A lot of these threads seem to be made by people who feel they are entitled to large profit margins.

Well, if I craft something to sell it, I try to get as much profit as I can.
Why else should I spend the materials I farm for anything I don't need myself.

[Ricon]

There are things that have never made sense to me like this: peacock ore selling for 25k each, you need 9 for an ingot as well as a rose gold nugget. Now the nugget is going to cost you about 2k with all nq mats(gold ore was about 400-500 each) so we're at about 227k for this rose gold ingot in cost, nq sells for 200k hq for 250k. I love the logic that on an nq you deserve to lose money and on hq you deserve roughly 10% profit. The market is broken, I was making base relics and we were all doing well at about 20k-30k profit with materia melded in an hq, now we lose money or break even because about 2 people keep it crashed. Nobody cares that the leather workers are charging 100k for that base relic.

Crafters should be able to make 10% on nq's and 25% on harder hq's. You gotta pay to be lazy.