Auto attack and possible consequences

[Eruantien]

this is too simple for me, if anything id want it to go into a level of defense/offense thing like the man site has.
what your talking back will lead to a fairly inactive playstyle.
hopefully flurry will stay a skill, maybe you can only do it after certain conditions, or in a certain stance, but i would want to actively control it, defense isnt that important, most of the action in defensive mode comes from trying to tank/use reactive skills, but offensive role shouldnt be so automated.

more combos like heavy>flurry used to be please

But what that proposes seems to negate auto attack. since pretty much all I ever use is flurry now.

[Physic]

But what that proposes seems to negate auto attack. since pretty much all I ever use is flurry now.

well i mean they may choose to get rid of flurry, i hope they dont but its a very real possibility, but they can still have things that work off of combos, like, if you land a critical you can use this attack, and follow it with some other attack. Or if you are going with stances, something where you can shift from one stance to another, but only one way, like heavy stance>flurry stance> critical stance, and some skills only available in certain stances, Basically something more involved than only 2 stances. and some reaction or combo skills available or more common from certain stances, much like evades will happen more with defensive stance.

Its my personal opinion of course, but i prefer a more involved battle style, closer to what we have now, than what monk was like in FFXI battle wise. It really was the least interactive class before abyssea, now i dont really know how it plays.

Im not really sure what thier specific goal was with auto attack, so i cant say if this fits their vision, but honestly i would rather have manual flurry than auto attack, also the 2 stance thing will negate the balance you could sometimes get with like light strike> heavy strike> flurry> light strike, you basically go pure offense or pure defense.

[AmnRahtep]

From what i remember reading in the blue print, i do not beleive they will be taking away any skills. I pretty sure they are going to rewamp some of the skills due to the addition of auto-attack.

The way i understood it, it should be working that auto-attack has a steady periodic dmg, while the skills has something extra to it. Lets say Heavy strick does 2x dmg, Light Strick gives evasion buff, Flurry gives extra threat but could be used only after heavy strick/flurry.
Stanima gage is going away, so the skills are to be reworked into instant use. But TP and cooldowns are going to stay (to prevent spamming of the big skills).

[Eruantien]

well i mean they may choose to get rid of flurry, i hope they dont but its a very real possibility, but they can still have things that work off of combos, like, if you land a critical you can use this attack, and follow it with some other attack. Or if you are going with stances, something where you can shift from one stance to another, but only one way, like heavy stance>flurry stance> critical stance, and some skills only available in certain stances, Basically something more involved than only 2 stances. and some reaction or combo skills available or more common from certain stances, much like evades will happen more with defensive stance.

Its my personal opinion of course, but i prefer a more involved battle style, closer to what we have now, than what monk was like in FFXI battle wise. It really was the least interactive class before abyssea, now i dont really know how it plays.

Im not really sure what thier specific goal was with auto attack, so i cant say if this fits their vision, but honestly i would rather have manual flurry than auto attack, also the 2 stance thing will negate the balance you could sometimes get with like light strike> heavy strike> flurry> light strike, you basically go pure offense or pure defense.

in that case I agree, more reactive skills are needed to keep the battle system fresh. more when you evade, when you miss when you crit type skills

[Akuun]

From what i remember reading in the blue print, i do not beleive they will be taking away any skills. I pretty sure they are going to rewamp some of the skills due to the addition of auto-attack.

The way i understood it, it should be working that auto-attack has a steady periodic dmg, while the skills has something extra to it. Lets say Heavy strick does 2x dmg, Light Strick gives evasion buff, Flurry gives extra threat but could be used only after heavy strick/flurry.
Stanima gage is going away, so the skills are to be reworked into instant use. But TP and cooldowns are going to stay (to prevent spamming of the big skills).

That kinda goes against the whole reason for them wanting to implement auto-attack.
The manual attacks require a lot more back and forth between client and server, where as auto-attack is like this.
Client: I am engaged with x target.
Server: You attack for x amount.
Server: You attack for x amount.
Server: You attack for x amount.
Server: You attack for x amount.
Client I have disengaged x target.

The current system has client sending attacks for every server result.
It's very inefficient from a bandwidth and processing aspect.

[Physic]

That kinda goes against the whole reason for them wanting to implement auto-attack.
The manual attacks require a lot more back and forth between client and server, where as auto-attack is like this.
Client: I am engaged with x target.
Server: You attack for x amount.
Server: You attack for x amount.
Server: You attack for x amount.
Server: You attack for x amount.
Client I have disengaged x target.

The current system has client sending attacks for every server result.
It's very inefficient from a bandwidth and processing aspect.

uhhhh other games have no problem with this, i think they are instituting auto attack more to appease people who dont want to press buttons, or overpress the buttons.
I hear wow, you almost never auto attack, Aion you were almost always using skills non stop, and it was able to be recreated even by private server users. Psu/pso had instant attacks (though this only had like 5 people in an instance in a time so i will let it slide) guild wars, was basically fast paced skill driven.

I just dont think thier server problems are related to auto attack, or if they are, its a problem that other companies have solved.

[Akuun]

uhhhh other games have no problem with this, i think they are instituting auto attack more to appease people who dont want to press buttons, or overpress the buttons.
I hear wow, you almost never auto attack, Aion you were almost always using skills non stop, and it was able to be recreated even by private server users. Psu/pso had instant attacks (though this only had like 5 people in an instance in a time so i will let it slide) guild wars, was basically fast paced skill driven.

I just dont think thier server problems are related to auto attack, or if they are, its a problem that other companies have solved.

WoW has auto attacks, and they go off whether you're performing another action or not, just like ffxi, doac, lineage (1 & 2) and probably 90% of other mmos on the market.
Now lets not forget DDO where you simply click the mouse button as fast as humanly possible to attack as fast as you can
as for games that do these tasks client side it opens things up to third party utilities that seriously disrupt game balance
as for ffxiv the manual attack system offered very little for what it did
if you prefer button mashing cool, i personally don't care for it, and find it to be a hindrance on communication for players not using a chat client

We still don't know what other changes are in store for the updated combat system, all we do know is auto attacks are coming, so till then, it's all just speculation, people fearing the worse, and wishful thinking.

[Physic]

WoW has auto attacks, and they go off whether you're performing another action or not, just like ffxi, doac, lineage (1 & 2) and probably 90% of other mmos on the market.
Now lets not forget DDO where you simply click the mouse button as fast as humanly possible to attack as fast as you can
as for games that do these tasks client side it opens things up to third party utilities that seriously disrupt game balance
as for ffxiv the manual attack system offered very little for what it did
if you prefer button mashing cool, i personally don't care for it, and find it to be a hindrance on communication for players not using a chat client

We still don't know what other changes are in store for the updated combat system, all we do know is auto attacks are coming, so till then, it's all just speculation, people fearing the worse, and wishful thinking.

i know they have auto attacks, but people are supposedly inputing skills as fast as we can input autoattacks and skills with the stamina system. I never really played wow, so that is hearsay, but i can tell you in aion, i almost never saw an auto attack unless i went afk. In guild wars while it had an auto attack, i was constantly pressing skills.

I dont so much prefer button mashing as i prefer controlling my charachters actions, for me the manual system was under utilized by many people. For pugilist i would say manual attacking did a lot, this may be because i low man, or solo often, and aim for the most difficult monsters which i get good sp for. But there is a huge difference in control and options between light strike, heavy strike, pummel, and flurry.

I do agree that it makes it hard to communicate in battle with text, but I dont want the game to be built around my typing speed, because to be honest, the better we get at a game, the less we need to talk.

Basically i prefer for the player to be constantly making descions, and having input in the battle, some prefer to sit back, give a broad strategy and interject rarely, i think that this should probably come down to a class selection difference, they should build different classes with different mechanics, that appeal to different types of players. either that or create an optional gambit like system, and a direct control system.

seem like the only ways to appease both player types.


that said, if it comes down to classes have different involvement levels, im saying i think pugilist should be one of the more involved classes. come on its martial arts, it should be a lot about technique, and adapting and reacting to your enemy.

[Akuun]

I did a lot of testing on my pug, I tested all 4 attacks on mobs solo, and the conclusion always came up the same for manual attacks, heavy strike, flurry, flurry, flurry, flurry, flurry, victimize or 3x1000tp attacks
the problem with other attacks is the trade off, a little more tp or evasion and defense vs much faster kills
keep in mind my evasion setup with a regular weapon is 198, defense gear showed to be decent for mobs with high accuracy (which is nearly all since we are screwed on dex for now

mashing 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 3 4 5
that's the core of pug right now, sad but true

[Akuun]

i know they have auto attacks, but people are supposedly inputing skills as fast as we can input autoattacks and skills with the stamina system. I never really played wow, so that is hearsay, but i can tell you in aion, i almost never saw an auto attack unless i went afk. In guild wars while it had an auto attack, i was constantly pressing skills.

These games also depend on nothing but cool down timers, ffxiv has up to 3 conditions just for using an ability
Stamina, cool down, mp or trigger (evasion, block etc), tp (tanaka went way overboard on the combat maths as well)

I do agree that it makes it hard to communicate in battle with text, but I dont want the game to be built around my typing speed, because to be honest, the better we get at a game, the less we need to talk.

Communication in a real strategy is key, my LS can down many of the world nm in mins because we are constantly communicating in chat. This is easier when soloing of doing low man, and leves are a joke with no more challenge than deciding who pulls.

Basically i prefer for the player to be constantly making descions, and having input in the battle, some prefer to sit back, give a broad strategy and interject rarely, i think that this should probably come down to a class selection difference, they should build different classes with different mechanics, that appeal to different types of players. either that or create an optional gambit like system, and a direct control system.

Button mashing, or lack of it, plays no part in strategy, managing your stamina, mp, tp etc is game basics,
most seem to have trouble just doing that.

seem like the only ways to appease both player types.

If the game had started with auto-attacks we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
I doubt we will see an option for manual or auto as it would create a balance issue.

that said, if it comes down to classes have different involvement levels, im saying i think pugilist should be one of the more involved classes. come on its martial arts, it should be a lot about technique, and adapting and reacting to your enemy.

I think you're confusing real life with a video game.
Technique and adapting doesn't mean you have to spam attacks to achieve.

Best suggestion I can give you for now is wait for 1.18 then decide if this game is for you, if not then I'm sure you'll find some game that meets your criteria.