Can we please get separate stat allocations for SMN/SCH?

[Astarica]

Min/max would be like go 30 vit, 30 mind (for healer), or some combination of each. Obviously 30 mind gets you more heal, but the dead does not heal, and it's not sufficient to say you didn't die so you don't need the vit, because for all you know perhaps another healer was forced to keep you alive which compromised the raid in some way. A question like that has no clear answer because we don't know all the variables involved, but we debate about it because we like to think an optimal stat distribution exists.

Int/Mind distribution is not min/max. There's no conceiveable scenario a healer will suddenly bust out some nukes to turn the tide around, or a DPS bust out some heals to turn things around. If the cost of Keeper's Hymn is trivial, you'd always respec before each fight toward some combination of Mind/Vit (for heal) or Int/Vit (for DPS). You're prevented from min/maxing because it's too expensive to min/max. This isn't an issue of 'play it my way'. If Keeper's Hymn is now sold on vendor for 1 gil, I'm sure all the 'I play for fun' guys will still reallocate their stats on any fight that's remotely difficult, unless they're just super lazy or that there was no chance of losing so they don't bother.

[LemmingKingXXX]

Similarly, assuming that the physical damage calculator at http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=260 can be effectively used for comparison purposes even though it's magical damage I'm calculating, a drop in 30 INT From my SMN being average ilevel of 77.5 (relic +1, ilevel 90 head, body, legs, feet, darklight waist, hands and accessories and demagogue ring - 462 dropping to 432) drops my absolute WS by a critical adjusted average o 5.61% or -32.96 and my WS DPS by 5.61% or -13.58 @300 potency

In both cases modifying the potency of the instances in question did not affect the percentage drops only the absolutes, and I find it easier to accept the accuracy despite these being brute forced formulas and the damage formula being only intended for physical damage because it makes sense given the pattern. As your total stat points increase the impact of the 30 points of bonus attributes should diminish, and it seems like in this case it does.

[Astarica]

Although the % improvement per 30 point of primary stat decreases as your total gear increases, this overlooks the fact that improvement in primary capabilities makes the encounter exponentially easier. If everyone in your party of 8 suddenly did double the damage, whatever encounter you fight against isn't half as hard. It'd simply end in an absolute steamroll assuming 8 guys are at all good to begin with. So until you hit the point where you have no possibility of losing to an encounter (at that point you wouldn't care about stats one way or another), you can even argue that small gains in stats are even more important as you get better gear, as they enable your party to go from the threshold of impossible to possible, or possible to doable, or even doable to trivial.

[DenzelTaru]

Yup. The bonus stats belong to the base class, which in this case is the Arcanist.

problem is.. the base class.. apart from sharing some skills with SCH.. is nothing alike SCH.. playing SCH well and SMN well is worlds apart.. when i switch onto my SMN for some fun i am like whaaat.. lol.. i think it should be job by job

i am gonna be really unhappy when i RDM comes out and i find out i already have it at lv50 cos i levelled its tree..

[MeeDeggiThePunisher]

/reads all 14 pages.

"30 points is nothing"
"Pick SCH and level BLM for DPS"
"Farm FATES for your 10k seals, it's not like it's mind numbingly boring or anything."

SMMFH

[DoctorPepper]

I agree that the stats should be separated, I want to play multiple jobs but this game makes it so difficult sometimes. Whoever decided that stat allocation should stick to the "class" that you don't even use after level 30 made a mistake. Let me play everything when I want to play it instead of putting all these gates in place and I will play this game for a long time to come.

[Luso]

The thing that people need to get used to is that this will probably happen to more classes as they branch into other jobs.

[LemmingKingXXX]

Although the % improvement per 30 point of primary stat decreases as your total gear increases, this overlooks the fact that improvement in primary capabilities makes the encounter exponentially easier. If everyone in your party of 8 suddenly did double the damage, whatever encounter you fight against isn't half as hard. It'd simply end in an absolute steamroll assuming 8 guys are at all good to begin with. So until you hit the point where you have no possibility of losing to an encounter (at that point you wouldn't care about stats one way or another), you can even argue that small gains in stats are even more important as you get better gear, as they enable your party to go from the threshold of impossible to possible, or possible to doable, or even doable to trivial.

I can see what you mean, but it wasn't my intention to make any judgements beyond the simple numbers comparison, from that point it is entirely up to the person in question to decide whether or not the resulting downside to playing both SCH and SMN in meaningful content is worth the enjoyment of playing them. If it is your contention that a threshold is to be met at 5% improvement then you'll have to pick one or the other, if you are ok with being 5% less than optimal in one and 100% full power in another, then there is that route, and if being 2-3% weaker over both is acceptable to you then you can split them 50/50.

[Baxter]

Because blinding loving a system with flaws isn't what MMO players do, we complain until it's perfect.

It's really not a flaw, but a design choice. You should view SCH and SMN both as an advance spec for ACN rather than separate entities as they were in FFXI. In most MMOs you can not spec to all of the advanced specs, you also have to choose. So I really do not understand why it's listed as a flaw in this game, but commonday mechanics in another.

As previously mentioned, you are able to freely choose between any other job to accomplish the same thing. If you want a magic healer you have two choices, WHM and SCH. If you want magic dmg there is BLM and SMN. Even still you can be sufficient in both SCH and SMN, but if you want optimal min/max with the bonus stats you will have to choose as most gear pieces will cap or near cap out the main stat meant for that job so there's hardly any chance to recoup the missing points.

[Roaminggnome]

I think I agree with what others have said I can't wait for other jobs to come out that are linked to other main classes that cause people to choose one or the other. Should get lively in here.