Paladin BiS Accessory Reddit Discussion

[LeonRegulus]

snip

Going to have to step in here, and state that you are factually incorrect. I'll ignore the pointed words used in order to give yourself some level self-importance. RNG plays no part in the fact that a PLD with str gear equipped, which your off-tank should be,can catch up to the main tank. When the main tank runs into conflags in order to avoid unnecessary damage, combos will be interrupted. This combined with the fact that the off-tank is doing more damage with dps gear on, and that he gets more RoH in, he will be catching up, not necessarily 100%.

So please, stop trying to make yourself look important, and either add to the conversation or sit on the side-lines.

[Leiron]

Except Taneshima is absolutely correct Tirion.

[pompey_dan]

SNIP.

Instead of calling all main tanks bad, even when people who have actually beaten the fight agree that it does happen, maybe you need to look closer to home as to why your OT doesn't catch the MT up on hate. The OT with STR gear on can do some good damage to twintania which will help in beating the enrage timer, they will also chuck out some nice burst damage for the conflags/snakes/dreads. If you are really tight on the enrage timer towards the end that extra damage from the OT could be what makes the difference.

If you are going to continue to argue your point then I guess more information should be needed, what is your MT STR in relation to the OT's, is your OT actually using sword oath??

[TaneshimaPopura]

The MT is not bad. But due to the way Sword Oath works and specifically how Shield Oath works. Reducing damage by 20% and providing 20% more enmity does not give you more Enmity. That is the problem there. Not bad play from the MT. If every action is based off static threat amount then yeah Shield Oath would have generated good threat aka things like flash. But Threat is based of damage done then a threat multiplier, shield oath shoots itself in the leg with the -20% damage.

Like most people already stated. Currently both tanks when not in tank stance actually generate more threat than in tank stance. This is a given fact and quite the common knowledge, if the OT is constantly in Sword Oath then the disparity is even wider leading to OT to catch up to MT even if MT were to use full Gryphonskins. I never once said that my MT was bad. It's just that Halone is so obviously loud you know when the other tank is doing his best on threat, the other thing you need to check is SoC debuff, so if both are there means he is already doing his best on threat.

You never been in that seat cause either you don't use Sword Oath and don't even have full Gryphonskin to see this happening.

[TirionCrey]

Instead of calling all main tanks bad, even when people who have actually beaten the fight agree that it does happen, maybe you need to look closer to home as to why your OT doesn't catch the MT up on hate.

That is the whole point...one time people say it happens for sure. You said the OT catches up easily, now you say it "does happen". I never argued that it never happens, you make it just sound like it's a common and defintie thing and I'm sorry, it's not. 2-3 Rage of Halone crits will make the OT catch up a lot compared to no crits at all. That's what I was saying the whole time. If the MT doesn't suck and RNG doesn't play in the OTs favour(making him crit too much) he won't catch up, he just won't. Also all the way in the beginning of the conversation I said that it also depends on the MTs main body equip being itemlvl90. Since those are the only parts he gets extra STR from if he is going with a full Vit build. Things like MT having regular Relic etc play into this as well. I was always talking about the situation of exactly equal equip except for MT having Vit accessories, while OT has STR accessories. In the time the MT builds hate on Twin, while the OT is busy with other things during the whole fight is enough for the MT to stay ahead. Only things that will make the OT catch up to the point where he would actually grab hate away from the MT if he is critting too much which also depends on if the crit happens on Savage/Halone, or just Fast Blade etc. My point stands. I never argued that it never happens, but it's not a thing that is bound to happen or just happens easily. And if it does...it's not me who would have to look at the OT what he's doing wrong.

Also stated several times, for the OT to catch up easily would imply that the OT never gets targeted by conflags and/or any fireballs during conflag 1/3. If he never gets conflagd or targeted by Fireball it's a pretty easy thing to catch up on hate. All these RNGs play a lot into the OT catching up. What the MT can also do to generate hate while he is stepping into the conflag is to use his CoS when conflags spawns (what they should do anyway) and throw a Fracture on Twin while he steps in. That also depends of course if you are in the middle of your enmity combo, since Fracture interuppts it. Let's say you are at Savage/Halone in your combo when conflag spawns, Savage/Halone is obviously the better choice. If you are at Fast Blade in your combo throwing a Fracture on him while running in does more for you. FoF being activated lasts long enough to count towards 2 CoS etc etc. It's situational but those are all things to consider for the MT and if he doesn't do that he is not generating hate to his full potential.

[pompey_dan]

It is a common thing with every time we have beaten twintania, happens every time if the OT doesn't hold back he will pull hate, our 2nd kill I had to OT and the only i90 gear I had was hand/belt, the body/legs were darksteel melded with crit/det and using str accessories. My MT had full i90 on the left and just missing 2 accessories on the right. I was at 385str, he was 359.

This also happens with my other tank from our 2nd group.

So I guess both my tanks are bad right? No way you could be wrong lol, I bet you are the OT in your group and are just too bad to pull hate, probly why you haven't beat twintania yet

[Leiron]

Math suports the fact an OT not in a Tank stance will pull threat away from the MT o I fail to see why it must be discussed.

[TirionCrey]

Okay...and now here comes the one and simple true fact that will blow all of your minds. I never bothered about it, since I have never been in an OT situation on Twintania.

But...easiest math ever and solving ALL the problems for all you OTs out there who apparently didn't bother enough to do the math xD

Enmity Combo Potency: Fast Blade (150) -> Savage Blade (200) -> Rage of Halone (260)

Combined Potency 610 (on 3 GCDs)

MP Combo Potency: Fast Blade (150) -> Riot Blade (230)

Combined Potency: 380 (on 2 GCDs)

To equal these out let's use a simple equation: 3 GCDs(610 Potency) vs 2 GCDs(380 Potency). 2 Enmity Combos equal 3 MP Combos on GCDs used.

610 Potency*2= 1220 Potency
380 Potency*3= 1140 Potency

While in total the overall Potency is higher for the enmity combo let's alternate it a little bit.

150+200+260 = 610 Enmity Combo
150+230 = 380 MP Combo PLUS Fracture (100 Potency+(6ticks*20 Potency)) = 600 for MP Combo+Fracture

18 seconds on Fracture equal 6 GCDs that can be used before it would have to be reapplied. 6 GCDs that can be used for 2 Enmity Combos or 3 MP Combos and then a fresh Fracture.

On the total uptime for Fracture this will resolve in the following compared between a Enmity Combo Rotation vs. a MP Combo Rotation.

Enmity Combo: 610 Potency + Fracture 220(18 seconds uptime) + 1220(2 Enmity combos during uptime) = 2050 Potency in 10 GCDs

vs

MP Combo: 380 Potency + Fracture 220 (18 seconds uptime) + 1140(3 MP combos during uptime) = 1740 Potency in 9 GCDs (add the Fracture to be reapplied as the 10th GCD and you are at 1960 in 10 GCDs)

2050 Potency in 10 GCDs vs. 1960 Potency in 10 GCDs

The difference is 90 Potency over the course of 25 seconds with the simple difference that the OT will NEVER EVER EVER get close in enmity at ANY point and doesn't have to hold back at all. That by itself will prolly increase the total DPS from the OT cause in 25 seconds it's a difference of Potency less than one of PLDs weakest attack. And considering the fact that the MT will gain more and more hate over the OT during this period...he can switch to the Enmity combo at some point and increase the total DPS even more.

Pure numbers on the total of Halone Combo do not neccesarrily mean more DPS in the long run, considering he has to hold back at some point to not get aggro.

This of course works the other way around as well...starting off with Enmity Combos til you are about to grab aggro and then just switch to MP combo. The total "loss" of DPS is neglectable, and it's not even a loss considering the MT just "does nothing" or waits a short amount of time in between the enmity combo skills to not grab hate. With this method the OT loses 90 Potency every 25 seconds which will add up to a total of roughly 900 Potency over the whole fight of 13 minutes, not considernig the phases where you don't attack Twintania at all.(Mainly first 3 adds, Snakes and during Conflags and Dreadknight spawns)

[pompey_dan]

Sorry back on topic,
I agree that crafted str/vit accessories are better but only if you reach the hp requirements of the content, everything below twintania is better with crafted, if you still can reach 6.5k hp with the crafted accessories and food then they will be better for twintania also, wouldn't want to drop below ~6.5k tho incase of unlucky death sentence/plummet timing while a healer is distracted by fireballs in final phase or healing other members etc.

[pompey_dan]

So in your *maths* you are admitting that the OT should be holding back on hate and using the riot blade combo... Lol