Paladin BiS Accessory Reddit Discussion

[Maelwys]

You Sir must have a hell of a different PLD than anybody else. With the gear you described and the gear I have in comparison, I got 57 more VIT...though I only get to 6360HP(6550ish in PT) out of PT w/o food buff. 57VIT= 855HP. 6550-855= 5.7k IN PT with your gear.

I'm a Sea Wolf. Base Vit @50 is 237, + Stat allocation is 267.

Darklight accessories are 10 vit each - so that's Neck, Ear, Wrist, Belt, Ring.
Heros Ring of Fending is 15 Vit, so that's 65 Vit total from accessories

Curtana is 21 Vit
Holy Shield is 8 Vit
Valor Head is 20 Vit
Valor Body is 33 Vit
Darklight Hands is 14 Vit
Darklight Feet/Legs combo is 36 Vit.
= That's 132 Vit from Armor

267 + 65 + 132 = 464 Vit. Applying the HP formula to this is = ((24*85) + 14.5*(464 - 202)) = 5839 HP.

Applying the "in a 8-man raid party" buff to this is *1.03 = 6014.17 HP. In a party, without food.

If we factor in food - in this case NQ Knight's Bread - it's +8 Vit for ((24*85) + 14.5*(472 - 202)) = 5955 HP, out of party, and 6133.65HP in party.

If I can clear Turn 4 in a PUG with a little over 6100HP

If I was fully i90'ed in +Vit gear, I'd be sitting at a total of 518 Vit. That would top me out (with HQ quality Toast) at 7029.75 HP
The same gearing, swapping out +Vit accessories for Melded Gryphonskins would put me at 6656.375 HP... so compared to the +Vit setup I'd effectively lose 373.375 HP, or 5.3114%.

I can honestly say that there have been very few occasions where I've thought an extra 373 HP is going to save me. But I'm willing to accept that other PLDs might think differently.

[Maelwys]

Also I was talking about full itemlvl70...which would substract another 24VIT from the gear you have. Which puts the PLD down to roughly 5.4k in PT(5.2k out of PT so just over 5k...as I said...) and while that still is enough for Turn 1-4 it's not like you won't get low sometimes on a Rotoswipe+AA and maybe hit the ground.

I'm splitting this into another post because it's a slightly seperate issue.
Coil is allegedly balanced for i80 gear, not i70... but I'd still hold that i70 gear is sufficient to get you through the early turns comfortably.

Breaking it down, for PLD...

A "Full Darklight" (e.g. NO MYTH AT ALL, not even the Hero's ring!) setup is:

Curtana: 21 Vit
Holy Shield: 8 Vit
Darklight Head/Body Combo: 36 Vit
Darklight Arms: 14 Vit
Darklight Feet/Legs Combo: 36 Vit
=115 Vit total

Accessories is 50 from the Darklight gear, and +8 from a Hoplite Ring. For 58 total.

Base Stats + Stat Point Allocation is still 237 + 30 = 267 Vit.

That's a Total of 440 Vit, which would get you 5491 HP solo, and 5655.73HP in a party.
If we add in NQ Knights Bread (the lowest I'd ever go whenever you actually want to make an "effort" on a coil run) that'd give you 5607 HP solo and 5775 HP in a party for a very basic "starter" PLD in coil.

Swapping the Hoplite for a Hero's Ring of Fending (which I'd consider to be the BEST first myth upgrade possible for a PLD) would bring you up to 5879.76 HP for a slightly more reasonable starting build, since it's very unlikely that someone will start running Coil with zero myth to their name.

I'd say that being in the region of ~5.8k is more than enough to get you through at least Turns 1 and 2 with a comfortable buffer for "derp moments".

I was easily tanking 4-buff-stacked Caduceus when I started out, and whilst I had the myth ring, I used Hoplite Head/Body rather than Darklight (because I can't STAND looking like I have a TinCan for a Head); so was basically sitting at exactly the same HP as that first "full-darklight" setup - 5775k. I got a bit more HP due to myth spends before attempting Turn 4, but even now I'm only sitting at another ~358 HP... (which as mentioned at the end of my last post, has never so far made a difference between our team winning and losing!!)

I will fully admit that DPS and healers are another story - the more myth the better. But Tanks reach a bit of a plateau, and I'd believe them to be able to get by just fine on anything short of Turn 5 (in terms of survivability, if not aggro control) with much less than fully i90ed levels of VIT.

[Churchill]

idk, our first wins Turn1-4 were pretty easy and I had 418 VIT which is 5172HP out of party. people seriously overestimate what's required to have a comfortable buffer.

[Paikis]

idk, our first wins Turn1-4 were pretty easy and I had 418 VIT which is 5172HP out of party. people seriously overestimate what's required to have a comfortable buffer.

7.5k is more than enough hp for a Warrior to do Turns 1-4. I had 460 VIT when we killed turn 4 for the first time, and 451 on our first clear of Turns 1 and 2.

[TirionCrey]

idk, our first wins Turn1-4 were pretty easy and I had 418 VIT which is 5172HP out of party. people seriously overestimate what's required to have a comfortable buffer.

Comfortable buffer and doable are two different things IMO. 5172 out of PT, so around 5.3/4k in PT is okay. Still on unlucky RNG you could get two shot in Turn 4 and higher stack Caduceus. I personally would say 6kk health in PT and food buff is a really comfortable buffer. At that point I wouldn't worry about any dmg incoming. 5.3k is doable and okay, but I wouldn't be "comfortable" with that amount of HP in Coil.

[Jahaudant]

Going to steer clear of the actual subject discussion. Both sides appear set in their own way.

Maelwys, your HP calculation is a little off. Just for your information here's the formula followed by how it would apply to a Seawolf in full i90 eating HQ Toast...

BaseHP + (RacialVIT * 14.5) = HP
2214 + (23 * 14.5) = 2548


HP + (AdditionalVIT * 14.5) = TotalHP //Additional VIT comprises of allocated stats, gear, and food
2548 + (295 * 14.5) = 6825.5


TotalVIT * 0.03 then rounded down = PartyBonusVIT //TotalVIT is the absolute total seen on your character page before joining a party
532 * 0.03 = 15.96 = 15


(PartyBonusVIT * 14.5) + TotalHP = FinalHP
(15 * 14.5) + 6825.5 = 7043 Final HP



Also, as a final titbit of info. Once you are in full i90 and using this BiS set you can switch to using HQ Finger Sandwich for an additional 1 VIT giving you 7057 HP.

[Leiron]

If you go the EAST route on Turn 2 then ADS takes 25% reduced slashing damage (Tanks) and 25% reduced Magic damage (BLM and SMN). The damage of other DDs - for example Bards - is unaffected. That basically means a 25% enmity buff for the other DDs. Melded Gryphonskin accessories increase your tanks damage output (over +Vit accessories) by about 20-25%, which almost completely closes that gap.

Our FC group has a heck of a lot of Bards. It means we've got plenty of silencers for ADS, but hate is definitely a little bit trickier to hold if we go that Eastern route because the bards occasionally like to blow all their +DMG/+Crit cooldowns simultaneously and tend to forget about Quelling Strikes.

If you go the WEST route, then Tanks deal normal damage and enmity is a heck of a lot easier.

It's also a little trickier to build hate on Turn 2 ADS, because you're not quite able to generate a constant stream of RoH combos on it - whenever the tanks swap positions, the first tank needs to hold back a bit on aggro generation until hate is properly traded.

I've not had any issues on ADS with enmity, primarily because we use WAR/PLD which does help enmity generation quite a bit.
In the past where we ran PLD/PLD it was never an issue, but at the same time, our bards also tended to realize that Bard DPS tends to have some of the highest burst out there and popped quelling strikes.
I do not believe that the gryphonskin accessories make up anything close towards a 25% increase towards your overall damage, since it takes quite a bit more than 45 strength for me to see Inner beast hit for 20% more.

It's not that tough a fight (dodging and silence timings excepted) but the aggro mechanics aren't as straightforward as with "normal" bosses.

It depends on how you handle it, normally we announced when the stacks are about to fall off at the 2 second, mark, then I personally provoke into a savage blade then an RoH attack since I've readied it with a fast blade before hand.
Works well even without poppong on gryphonskin accessories.

RIFT works as an example because it is a case where burst is pretty much the only time a tank is in danger, so you only really need to plan for it unless another issue pops up.
I don't see gryphonskin being useful for much else besides improved enmity generation.

I am still perplexed why they are releasing CT in an i80 state though.

[Exstal]

Our FC group has a heck of a lot of Bards. It means we've got plenty of silencers for ADS, but hate is definitely a little bit trickier to hold if we go that Eastern route because the bards occasionally like to blow all their +DMG/+Crit cooldowns simultaneously and tend to forget about Quelling Strikes.

So accounting for bad players. Ok, that's a good argument in my books.

[Maelwys]

Going to steer clear of the actual subject discussion. Both sides appear set in their own way.

Maelwys, your HP calculation is a little off. Just for your information here's the formula followed by how it would apply to a Seawolf in full i90 eating HQ Toast...

BaseHP + (RacialVIT * 14.5) = HP
2214 + (23 * 14.5) = 2548

HP + (AdditionalVIT * 14.5) = TotalHP //Additional VIT comprises of allocated stats, gear, and food
2548 + (295 * 14.5) = 6825.5

With you so far, I get 532 Vit for this too.

TotalVIT * 0.03 then rounded down = PartyBonusVIT //TotalVIT is the absolute total seen on your character page before joining a party
532 * 0.03 = 15.96 = 15

So it's a straight Vit bonus rather than an HP multiplier?

Interesting. Party bonus is one of the few things I've not personally rigorously tested, and just took someone else's calculations for granted. Doh. That'll teach me...

Partied HP is actually going to always be slightly higher then.

Good catch! Shall update my spreadsheets accordingly...

So accounting for bad players. Ok, that's a good argument in my books.

Well... all I'll say is that certain players in the FC (and I'm naming no names!) occasionally have issues with "carefully watching their hate level and backing off when needed"...

[Leiron]

Can you perhaps link your spreadsheet in your siggy?
Would be very useful.