Paladin BiS Accessory Reddit Discussion

[TaneshimaPopura]

Only the MT Cleared it others didn't. I was pointing to the fact that if as a MT all you gear up is just Vitality you will throttle your OT damage, I don't expect a Japanese player even if he cleared Twintania twice before me to play up to my 9 years of HM raiding experience. MT can choose to Stoneskin himself if he choose to do so, I can choose to do so too. But in order to do that I must first have a lead in Threat.

Hence why I say Gryphonskin capability of generating threat in itself can be sometimes more than meets the eye. And he is not really a crappy MT since he switches to Conflagration (Not only on Odd numbered Conflagration) all the time although it is not needed with our DPS which causes me to chase up in Threat too. Hence why I state my point being valid. IF you have 6.4k in PT as a Paladin unless you can beef it up by another 800HP to sustain another Auto Attack the point of hovering at 6.4-6.6k HP is moot as it does nothing really productive as most of the time you should be topped up during the counter and outside of Infirmity debuff.

Twintania OT as Paladin is just about pushing as much DPS as your MT threat ceiling goes then start providing Stoneskin so Healers don't have to do it and can sustain heal through infirmity debuff. And back to the original purpose of the post, Gryphonskin is your go to to maximize your OT DPS potential, MT using Gryphonskin increases your OT DPS ceiling. Hence both should be using Gryphonskin if survivability is no longer a current concern.

[TirionCrey]

Twintania OT as Paladin is just about pushing as much DPS as your MT threat ceiling goes then start providing Stoneskin so Healers don't have to do it and can sustain heal through infirmity debuff. And back to the original purpose of the post, Gryphonskin is your go to to maximize your OT DPS potential, MT using Gryphonskin increases your OT DPS ceiling. Hence both should be using Gryphonskin if survivability is no longer a current concern.

I can definetely agree on that. But still if you are forced to hold back on DPS as the OT with melded Gryphonskin accessories, the MT even with a full VIT build is not doing his job right. The only situation where I wouldn't blame the MT is if he is missing several main body parts of itemlvl90(that would boost his STR as well). If he has them, there is no reason for the OT to ever get close enough to rip hate off the MT at any point during Twintania.

[Exstal]

Well remember, ladies and gents, Paladin's DPS combo is also their threat combo. Eventually, you'll catch up. So it's not totally unbelieveable, but if MT is only on Twin at the start for ~90s+, there should be a really good lead unless OT decides to use Provocation.

edit: Tani, 日本語能力試験?

[Jahaudant]

Your main tank would have to be doing nothing for a good minute and a half for your OT to take threat.

Remember, the threat meter is somewhat misleading. Just because it "looks" like your OT has caught up to 99% of the threat bar, doesn't mean they are 1 Halone away from taking the mob.

[pompey_dan]

If the MT has full i90 and +15 vit accessories in shield oath and the OT has full i90 and str+9 accessories in sword oath the OT will easily catch up on hate and if he doesn't stop spamming rage of halone combo will pull hate during conflagration phase,

unless you take a really long time to kill dragons at beginning or your OT is not using +str accessories or your main tank is using +str accessories, then this will always happen with good MT/OT and it does not mean a bad MT lol

[TirionCrey]

If the MT has full i90 and +15 vit accessories in shield oath and the OT has full i90 and str+9 accessories in sword oath the OT will easily catch up on hate and if he doesn't stop spamming rage of halone combo will pull hate during conflagration phase,

unless you take a really long time to kill dragons at beginning or your OT is not using +str accessories or your main tank is using +str accessories, then this will always happen with good MT/OT and it does not mean a bad MT lol

This might be the case for your group, but once again given the mechanics of Twintania, if the OT is constantly DPSing Twintania and not switching to conflags, gets never targeted by conflags and/or never get's targeted by fireballs during a conflag then I see this happening. MT having Vit accessories and OT having STR accessories regardless...if the OT is getting to the point where he has to hold back on DPS, the MT is not generating threat to his full potential(OT having massive crit luck out of equation). Doesn't neccesarrily mean he sucks, but it does mean he is not generating threat as much as he could. For some deluded reason most PLD think Halone combo is all it takes to generate max threat...but it's not.

[UrbanLucrece]

Quick comparison between Allagan neck,ring and bracelets vs gryphon skin with melds rounded down is:

STR 27 vs 0.
DEX 27 vs 0.
SKILLSPEED 18 vs 22.
ACC 33 vs 27.
VIT 30 vs 15.
PARRY 34 vs 43.
DET 14 vs 0.

Using allagan gives you about 15 vit and 8 more parry, that's about it. Gryphon gives 27 str, 27 dex, 6 acc, 14+ det and (other meldable stat like chr).

The enmity debate going on I don't understand the OT don't catch up in hate after holding the 3 adds from start. Also if the MT lost hate to OT he should have voke for that while OT hold back, hopefully people communicate

[Leiron]

You generate more enmity outside of Shield Oath/Defiance than you do with it on.

You can MT Twintania with full AF2 + Gryphonskins overmelded and perform better in Threat/DPS department. Full iLvl 90 is just overkilling your HP sponge and not being able to generate enough threat to those really good DPS.

You should not be losing threat to anything except maybe the initial burst of a Bard.
Or if the DPS have significantly better weapons/gear than you.
Go test it out on a dummy yourself.

[TaneshimaPopura]

@Exstal

Yes, the JLPT N3 test. Stupid daily post cap...

@TirionCrey

Look here comes another someone who cleared Twintania probably more than me claiming my exact scenario. You choose to remain ignorant and throw more false information on this forum. I shall just brand you a troll instead of a forum contributor, cause as it looks to be you are beyond redemption...

@Leiron

Yeah already know what when you substitute the formula DMG * .8 * 1.2 for Shield Oath and DMG *.75 *1.25 none of them actually works at all. It's silly. Only thing Defiance and Shield Oath increase in Enmity is Flash cause it is not affected by damage.

[TirionCrey]

@TirionCrey

Look here comes another someone who cleared Twintania probably more than me claiming my exact scenario. You choose to remain ignorant and throw more false information on this forum. I shall just brand you a troll instead of a forum contributor, cause as it looks to be you are beyond redemption...

Call me whatever you want, I know I am right and either the both of you are not able to see the fact that if the OT catches up EASILY(as pompey even claims) then something is seriously wrong with your MT. You said it yourself before, that your MT kinda sucked...pretty much agreeing with me there. If he would be a good MT you wouldn't have been able to catch up in hate, simple fact. Now pompey even claims the OT catches up EASILY to the MT, even if he's good which is even more ridiculous. Once again I can see situations happening where the OT does catch up, but these involve RNG like crazy(critting a lot of Savage Blades/Halones for example). This is not the common case though, so please just spare me with your false wisdom. Either both of you settled with mediocrity as a MT, or you really just don't see it.

PS: To further prove my point...you stated before that a MT has threat issues against really good DPS in T4 on W2,4,5 and 6. I told you that 2 is understandable. If any Tank has any problem holding hate on any of the other waves...he sucks. Plain fact...and since you either have problems yourself holding hate, or your MT does...that should tell you more than enough.