Better dungeon design?

[civilpaw]

So far I like the encounters. You guys did a good job of designing encounters but the dungeons just dont feel like dungeons, and I think I know why. It's the little portals. Why is it that we have to teleport to the next section of the dungeon when we kill a boss? Why not run out of the room and continue on?

Coil just feels insubstantial. It feels incongruous. It just doesnt feel like its a single dungeon. And Amdapor Keep seems like it would be so much more awesome if we got to run up one of those collapsing circular stair cases to get to the second level.

On a side note: Not everything needs to be a dungeon. I miss world content from FFXI and WoW. Specifically FFXI. I miss epic zones like Temple of Uggalepih and the Boyahda Tree and etc.

[Marxam]

If you played Star Ocean 2 and went to Cave of Trials then you know what good, end-game dungeon design should be like

[sylin]

I have really liked the encounters so far also, but, I would love to see some overland dungeons put in, and just in general some VERY hard content.

Or, maybe just whole dungeon zones would be good.

I'd like to see beastmen zones wherein maybe agro works differently and mobs WILL not break away chase unless you zone out, or I've heard tell of ff11 having strange agro rulesets like undead all agroing across zone if your really low on life, some flavorful zones like this would make this great game even better.

Id like to see insane or even impossible content added, in EQ I cant recall which dragon it was but they meant for it never to be killed, it was an impossible mob, and that's kind of how eq raiding was born, an organized group of players got together (like 200) and managed to kill a mob that was meant to be impossible to kill, things like this really add flavor and soul to games and those players will never forget they achieved the impossible.

[sylin]

another thought Ive had in regards to really hard content, that maybe not every player can get thru, is instead of segregating casuals by making it so they feel they MUST obtain X gear from X event that they cant possibly do. Don't make the stats better than they can receive elsewhere, just simply make the gear cooler, ie particle effects or glows or clicky abilities, in essence let those of us who desire impossible content have it, but don't break the game for those who can't or don't want to, let us show off how uber we are via our displays over via our stats.

(I personally do feel the best gear should be obtained by those who are best, but in an mmo that we want to succeed and lets face it there are many causal/solo type players in this market, so somewhere we need to find middle ground so all are happy)

[civilpaw]

If you played Star Ocean 2 and went to Cave of Trials then you know what good, end-game dungeon design should be like

I played SO2, and did clear that dungeon. And it was fun. But Im not entirely sure it applies to this sorta game.

edit: wait, are we talkin the PS version or the PSP version. Cause I havnt played the PSP version.

[Marxam]

wait, are we talkin the PS version or the PSP version. Cause I havnt played the PSP version.

Psx version. I do think it will work. As it stands the only real "puzzles" that we get are the boss encounters in coil. Most of the time dungeons consists of "do this" or "go here and do that" or "activate this". I think it would be much more interesting if dungeons had a puzzle that lead up to the boss. To go back to the Cave of Trials example, in the 3rd floor you had to enter rooms in a certain order to activate glowing tiles that when fully lit would open the boss door. Puzzles in dungeons would make this game more RPG-like than most mmo's imo.

[civilpaw]

Psx version. I do think it will work. As it stands the only real "puzzles" that we get are the boss encounters in coil. Most of the time dungeons consists of "do this" or "go here and do that" or "activate this". I think it would be much more interesting if dungeons had a puzzle that lead up to the boss. To go back to the Cave of Trials example, in the 3rd floor you had to enter rooms in a certain order to activate glowing tiles that when fully lit would open the boss door. Puzzles in dungeons would make this game more RPG-like than most mmo's imo.

Personally doubt people would tolerate that. People hated chess in Karazhan. Personally I dont mind a raid being a boss rush, but the dungeon itself just doesnt feel like a dungeon. The atmosphere is severely lacking.

[MirariMirai]

Personally doubt people would tolerate that. People hated chess in Karazhan. Personally I dont mind a raid being a boss rush, but the dungeon itself just doesnt feel like a dungeon. The atmosphere is severely lacking.

karazhan was one of the better raids designed in wow. I found chess "boss" in karazhan kinda entertaining. A puzzle once in a blue moon makes it refreshing for players. my 2 cents

[MirariMirai]

So far I like the encounters. You guys did a good job of designing encounters but the dungeons just dont feel like dungeons, and I think I know why. It's the little portals. Why is it that we have to teleport to the next section of the dungeon when we kill a boss? Why not run out of the room and continue on?

Coil just feels insubstantial. It feels incongruous. It just doesnt feel like its a single dungeon. And Amdapor Keep seems like it would be so much more awesome if we got to run up one of those collapsing circular stair cases to get to the second level.

On a side note: Not everything needs to be a dungeon. I miss world content from FFXI and WoW. Specifically FFXI. I miss epic zones like Temple of Uggalepih and the Boyahda Tree and etc.

+1 so agree with you

[Kelberos]

I reckon its more to do with server stability. If you spawn a full dungeon from the get go the way you do in WoW and other lower level dungeons - you will put a lot of strain on the server.

On a side note: Not everything needs to be a dungeon. I miss world content from FFXI and WoW. Specifically FFXI.

We already have a couple of content thats not dungeon based. Look at Odin and Behemoth. How much fun it is stacking on one map tile with 200+ other people that are spamming AOE on a small piece of land. Or how it would occasionally crash the server?

IMHO - they do not have a good handle nor a good solution to handle non-dungeon based content. Its not their fault per se since World events are hectic & messy. Unless something has changed or can be done i would refrain them from trying.

I understand where you are coming from - and i do root for them myself. But i would not trade them off for server stability/availability.