Does it make sense to have mobs die so quickly?

[TheVedis]

Exactly this.

no not that

people dont understand what a grouping bonus even is

YOU DO NOT GET MORE SP FOR GROUPING

the "bonus" as it is, is only to offset the penalty you get for having more people in your group to begin with


If a mob gives 100 sp solo, it does not give more for being grouped, it gives less
with no bonus itl give 50 sp
with the bonus it may give 80 instead


the entire people of the reduced sp is in fact due to the mob getting easier to kill

so a solo kill can be 300 sp, a 8 man kill can be 100 sp, the 100 sp reflects the mob being easier to kill in a group
hence why the mobs dont need to be made tougher in order to "reflect" the misinterperted bonus

[darkstarpoet1]

no not that

people dont understand what a grouping bonus even is

YOU DO NOT GET MORE SP FOR GROUPING

the "bonus" as it is, is only to offset the penalty you get for having more people in your group to begin with


If a mob gives 100 sp solo, it does not give more for being grouped, it gives less
with no bonus itl give 50 sp
with the bonus it may give 80 instead


the entire people of the reduced sp is in fact due to the mob getting easier to kill

so a solo kill can be 300 sp, a 8 man kill can be 100 sp, the 100 sp reflects the mob being easier to kill in a group
hence why the mobs dont need to be made tougher in order to "reflect" the misinterperted bonus

that was not the bonus i was talking about, but ty for playing. when you get 4 members you get a bonus called a light party. when you get 8 you get another bonus. thank you please come again.

Not sure its been posted before but:

[dev1027] Balancing of enemy attributes

[dev1027] Balancing of enemy attributes

Changes to enemy attributes and drops

I'd say that figures into increasing difficulty in line with the new battle/job system.

wasn't the same thing said about balancing the nm's said right before they nerfed them?

[Rutelor]

When yopu got 8 people beating on a mob, yes it does make sense

you want to see what a 8 man balanced mob is like, go fight faction NMs or the higher ranked NMs in the field

My linkshell and I do, all the time! Yesterday we had a great run, repeatedly beating the Great Buffalo. That is beyond the point of this question. We cannot rank up by fighting those. What about the everyday, simple experience of ranking up with a party? I really don't want to feel like SE is giving away the points, I want to feel I earned them.

In any event, even as a solo player the Guildleve mobs are too easy, and so is Behest, BTW.

[TheVedis]

My linkshell and I do, all the time! Yesterday we had a great run, repeatedly beating the Great Buffalo. That is beyond the point of this question. We cannot rank up by fighting those. What about the everyday, simple experience of ranking up with a party? I really don't want to feel like SE is giving away the points, I want to feel I earned them.

In any event, even as a solo player the Guildleve mobs are too easy, and so is Behest, BTW.

well if you wanna feel like you are earning it fight higher level mobs

but a rank 40 mob, is a rank 40 mob regardless, it gives 300 sp to a rank 30 player(just a made up number but lets go with it as an example)
when 2 people fight it, it gives 150 sp to each of them, 250 with the bonus

the mob is now easier, and instead of 300 sp, you get 250 for it...thats fair
every person you add to the group makes it easier, and the sp goes down

by the time you have 8 people you are getting 100 sp each, total, counting the bonus
that solo kill was 300 sp

the reduction in sp now reflects how much easier the mob is to kill with 8 people as opposed to 1

however if you go and fight something thats say....rank 60 with you 8 people, youll have more of a challenge and i think thats what people need to consider

mobs will never scale to the group fighting them, the group needs to scale to the mobs they want to fight instead

[Rentahamster]

well if you wanna feel like you are earning it fight higher level mobs

but a rank 40 mob, is a rank 40 mob regardless, it gives 300 sp to a rank 30 player(just a made up number but lets go with it as an example)
when 2 people fight it, it gives 150 sp to each of them, 250 with the bonus

the mob is now easier, and instead of 300 sp, you get 250 for it...thats fair
every person you add to the group makes it easier, and the sp goes down

by the time you have 8 people you are getting 100 sp each, total, counting the bonus
that solo kill was 300 sp

the reduction in sp now reflects how much easier the mob is to kill with 8 people as opposed to 1

however if you go and fight something thats say....rank 60 with you 8 people, youll have more of a challenge and i think thats what people need to consider

mobs will never scale to the group fighting them, the group needs to scale to the mobs they want to fight instead

That's not entirely how it works.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...entry?e=183441

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-How-to-Fix-it

[TheVedis]

That's not entirely how it works.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...entry?e=183441

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-How-to-Fix-it

so your saying, when i duo a mob im getting more sp then solo?
that is how it works

the more people who join a group the lower the sp gets, period
i may not have posted exact scaling numbers, but its still pretty much a fact

granted when it comes to issues like power leveling, the sp differences can go up instead of down(say if you go from a rank 1 and a 50 together, to 2 1s and a 50, the 1s will in fact get more sp per kill at that point)
but overall the sp does go down

[Peregrine]

The system is designed so that optimally, there are 4 members in a party. That is in-line with their statements that they want the norm to be 4, and the megaboss fights to be 8. In fact, adding any more members above 4 on the field really does kill your sp per hour. It's not a marginal decrease, it's a 15-25% decrease in SP per hour.

This is unfortunate, because 4 meleers at ants that can heal themselves is much better SP per hour than 4 meleers and a healer.

It's not a marginal sp reduction. 30 sp difference per mob is a big difference in sp per hour when the mobs are dropping a base of 175.

[Rentahamster]

In fact, adding any more members above 4 on the field really does kill your sp per hour. It's not a marginal decrease, it's a 15-25% decrease in SP per hour.

That's mainly because of 2 factors:

1. Most of the time, in a 4+ member party, you kill stuff faster than it can respawn.

and

2. All of the time, you are not rewarded with more SP for fighting mobs more than 10 ranks higher than you

Problems that I elaborate upon and propose fixes for in my "fix SP" thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-How-to-Fix-it

This is unfortunate, because 4 meleers at ants that can heal themselves is much better SP per hour than 4 meleers and a healer.

That's because ants don't have any AOE moves, so the meleers don't have to be concerned at all with AoE healing. (but even if you do you can just use archers and the point is moot, but that's an argument for a completely different thread)

It's not a marginal sp reduction. 30 sp difference per mob is a big difference in sp per hour when the mobs are dropping a base of 175.

I didn't say it was "marginal". I said it was less in reality than the numbers that Vedis gave in his example.

Besides, you probably shouldn't be grinding on stuff that only gives you 175 SP per kill. Optimal raptors give 450 SP per kill in a duo and 383 SP in a party of 4.

[Rutelor]

Once again, though: The original issue, in my starting post, had to do with battle time and challenge, not a system of reward. Of course, the two collide, but I was just advocating for more expansive, intricate battles. I am aware of the complications of balancing solo-vs-group reward, and that's a big issue that I hope the development team is aware of, and dealing with resolutely.

I just wanted to open a thread on something that, usually, is mentioned only tangentially. In contrast with the issue I brought up, I have read and heard plenty of concern about how to balance reward in the game.

[TheVedis]

Once again, though: The original issue, in my starting post, had to do with battle time and challenge, not a system of reward. Of course, the two collide, but I was just advocating for more expansive, intricate battles. I am aware of the complications of balancing solo-vs-group reward, and that's a big issue that I hope the development team is aware of, and dealing with resolutely.

I just wanted to open a thread on something that, usually, is mentioned only tangentially. In contrast with the issue I brought up, I have read and heard plenty of concern about how to balance reward in the game.

there will be harder battles in the futre
thats a given, and i dont think you have to worry about it