Tank needing Bard's opinion

[Anonydort]

Hi,

When I queue for WP in DF and I am grouped with a bard, I tend to ask the bard use Mage's Ballad in almost every pull. The reason for this is simply because this allows me to pull much bigger, and it also eliminates any downtime. However, I have noticed that some bards simply refuse to use it even when they have full mp pool, and seeing how I do not even have a lvl 1 bard, I can't tell if he/she is not doing their job, or if I am requesting too much from them.

So, my question is this: do you hate it when a tank makes such request? I understand that there is some opportunity cost associated with using Mage's Ballad, but is the alternative more beneficial to the group than using Mage's Ballad?

jebus, find better bards. better yet, try to form a server group at revenant's toll

[PArcher]

For the most part I don't use Ballad for the tank's sake. If I need to use it, it is because the Healer is blowing through their MP like no tomorrow.

That's what our BRDs do.

Our PAL uses Riot Blade for mana regen during pulls; BRD is usually singing Foe's for our BLM. If I need mana (depends on the pull and CDs) I'll ask for it, but normally Ballad will only go up between pulls (esp since Foe's does generate aggro).

[Luso]

Hi,

When I queue for WP in DF and I am grouped with a bard, I tend to ask the bard use Mage's Ballad in almost every pull.

If you are running a pre-made, drop the bard/blist them. I run Ballad with my tank because he can spam blinds, whm can spam heals/Holy, and we have little downtime after these pulls. If the bard doesn't understand how to support a group he probably doesn't know how to play bard very well.

Ballad has a -20% damage debuff on the bard. However, there are cases were this means very little to what ballad is trying to accomplish.

Edit:
My group comp is as follows:
Knight
Blackmage
Whitemage
Bard

So far our record has been 9:58 on wp speed runs. I run ballad through almost the whole instance and switch to Foe Requiem on the bosses.

[matic]

in my experience tanking WP SR's, riot blade provides ample MP regain. Just Flash spam til almost empty then riot til almost full. easy.

[smokecheck]

Typically I use foe requiem during pulls, then once mobs r down to 30-40% health left pop ballad. Keeps tank fresh and allows for faster kills with the blm. Then when running thru the long pulls use swiftsong so less damage taken from less runtime.

[Leon_Stormrage]

So, my question is this: do you hate it when a tank makes such request? I understand that there is some opportunity cost associated with using Mage's Ballad, but is the alternative more beneficial to the group than using Mage's Ballad?

Is completely right ask a bard for a Balad or ask a whm for a stoneskin.
I always sing MP song from the beginning and run with the tank, when we reach where the mobs should be killed I deactivate the song use CDs and AoE when the mobs are about to die I put the MP song up and the same thing again. It speed up a lot the run

[Garnatian]

I don't use it in pulls, I use Foe. I use Ballad for WHMs between pulls (when they hit around 3k MP I swap out to Swift.)

If you need Ballad, learn to Tank better, you don't need it.

I've SRed WP with my PLD/WHM/BRD so I know what they do and don't need.

[Mikedizzy]

I put up songs as needed (I watch MP levels on my own and usually don't need to be asked) But if someone asked me I would probably do it for them no problem but you really should not have to have it up for every single mob unless you are speed running in which case Foes Req or Army's Paeon would be better for the AoE ers trying to smash the mobs down faster...I usually play with my FC though so we all know how each other plays and what we want to accomplish every time and are on Mumble.

[Fiosha_Maureiba]

My thought is, if you're in a DF party, do not expect it. Do not expect speed run. Expect to clear the content, but not at record speed or maximum efficiency (because both suggest pre-formed parties where synergy can be performed to do this).

If you ask if they can put up Ballad toward the end of combat until the next pull, that's one thing. Ballad drops their AoE damage by 20%, so enemies die slower and may exhaust more resources. Bard may be TP starved by the end even with Invigorate and you may need to tank even longer.

But as long as you as a Paladin have the Riot Blade combo, their counter expectation is that you will use that to handle any MP concerns you have.

And if not, then to let group dynamics play a different role, e.g. you Flash less, let them use Quelling Strikes more, and/or pulling smaller waves.

[Songi]

Gonna sound like a troll post but like I tell my FC tanks: "Get gud." I won't run ballad because they're having issues holding aggro, read ability descriptions and learn how to tab target and maintain aggro. If things aren't dying fast enough then I'll start looking at the other DPS because I already know I'm doing all I can to drop things as quickly as possible while keeping myself out of AoEs to save healer's MP. Also I will always make sure if the healer isn't having to do intense healing, they're being told the use holy and cleric stance to speed things along. As the bard in the group I can watch over everyone else and not worry losing dps because my job is so simple for the most part.