A plea to reconsider Inner Beast changes

[Churchill]

Should have had Shiyo write it so I could just skip from the get-go.

Class functions the same, only difference being that IB's usage is almost always going to be useful and your healers/you won't need to tip-toe around who is going to waste their MP/ability as you overheal a big hit. Titan doesn't hit hard enough to require IB anyway unless your healers are just terrible in which case IB is great because god knows you aren't getting that pre-cast heal or Adloq. As much as I'd love to balance a class around terrible players, somehow I feel like I'd be at a disadvantage when I'm not around them and if I was I know I'd certainly be at a disadvantage to my group if my only form of mitigation was a self-heal I couldn't even effectively use outside of requiring that everyone else I played with was awful.

Now, it doesn't matter if someone is pre-curing me because if I know the fight, know what I'm doing, know what buffs I have, I can mitigate when necessary or keep my Wrath/DPS for something else in the future.

[Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam]

Should have had Shiyo write it so I could just skip from the get-go.

Class functions the same, only difference being that IB's usage is almost always going to be useful and your healers/you won't need to tip-toe around who is going to waste their MP/ability as you overheal a big hit. Titan doesn't hit hard enough to require IB anyway unless your healers are just terrible in which case IB is great because god knows you aren't getting that pre-cast heal or Adloq. As much as I'd love to balance a class around terrible players, somehow I feel like I'd be at a disadvantage when I'm not around them and if I was I know I'd certainly be at a disadvantage to my group if my only form of mitigation was a self-heal I couldn't even effectively use outside of requiring that everyone else I played with was awful.

Now, it doesn't matter if someone is pre-curing me because if I know the fight, know what I'm doing, know what buffs I have, I can mitigate when necessary or keep my Wrath/DPS for something else in the future.

I was kinda hoping you'd chime in. It's true that in coil this is undeniably a buff. With stand alone usage it's more than likely gonna result in more mitigation than the old IB (even in crit/zerk cases), but it did lose some utility with Infuriate (2x buffed IB). The argument about not needing IB on Titan is kind of silly, you can sit there and soak up everything in coil the same way (including Twin if you're properly preshielding and running a virus rotation), that doesn't mean it's how you should be operating. I can't help but feel like your healers just aren't used to healing you on WAR if you constantly feel like you're tip-toeing around overhealing. Overhealing may become an issue tanking pre-split Cad (our SCH usually just DoTs until it starts to stack), but when you're dealing with a single healer post split it's never been something we've had to skirt around. ADS our SCH DoTs on tank swap and I hold wrath by the time I'm hitting 3 stacks and getting bombed. Turn 4 we split heals aside from aoe waves (where I'm not IBing anyway), overhealing is again not an issue. Twin does enough damage that a Cure 2, Physick and IB post-DS aren't going to overheal you either, especially when Infirmiry comes in to play.

[Churchill]

I was kinda hoping you'd chime in. It's true that in coil this is undeniably a buff. With stand alone usage it's more than likely gonna result in more mitigation than the old IB (even in crit/zerk cases), but it did lose some utility with Infuriate (2x buffed IB).The argument about not needing IB on Titan is kind of silly, you can sit there and soak up everything in coil the same way (including Twin if you're properly preshielding and running a virus rotation), that doesn't mean it's how you should be operating. I can't help but feel like your healers just aren't used to healing you on WAR if you constantly feel like you're tip-toeing around overhealing. Overhealing may become an issue tanking pre-split Cad (our SCH usually just DoTs until it starts to stack), but when you're dealing with a single healer post split it's never been something we've had to skirt around. ADS our SCH DoTs on tank swap and I hold wrath by the time I'm hitting 3 stacks and getting bombed. Turn 4 we split heals aside from aoe waves (where I'm not IBing anyway), overhealing is again not an issue. Twin does enough damage that a Cure 2, Physick and IB post-DS aren't going to overheal you either, especially when Infirmiry comes in to play.

We did everything with me on Warrior while it was still hard, before I swapped to Paladin. There are definitely times in Coil where current IB isn't in danger of being wasted, but some of those situations have become so with time/gear or aren't very optimal situations for a Warrior to be tanking anyway. I've never denied that Warrior can do all of the content a Paladin can currently do, just that Warrior doesn't do it as proficiently. I've never claimed that Warrior doesn't do more damage (in fact, you know that I am #1 Earth Warrior critdpsgogo) but Warrior doesn't do more damage while also main tanking if you take into account the differences between the two classes. I can run full DPS/Sword Oath and still tank, I can't run full DPS/No Defiance and do DPS combos while still tanking on Warrior, at least not past WP/AK.

That's why I think one of the bigger changes may end up being the enmity buff to Defiance - whether or not it is only to account for permanent increased healing, or to actually account for the -loss of damage from Defiance, it may allow for some full DPS/No Defiance toggle situations where before you would get handled. Add in Vengeance and IB shielding, you have the ability to get some of the CD rotation Paladin has while also doing more damage.

In full tank gear w/tank stances up, Warrior does more damage anyway as long as they can manage uptime on their DPS rotation and not lose hate. If you can survive and your healers can take the extra burden then obviously Warrior is going to be better for anything you don't need massive CD rotations to beat, but I don't see it as so much better that every group in the game will want to take a Warrior because even when Warrior was overpowered, plenty of bads still did content with only Paladins. (In 1.0)

[Paikis]

Warrior does more damage anyway

Are you trying to give Kitru a fit? You can't say things like that around here!

I agree with this 100% I think IB is okay as is and can be really usefull if you need that extra heal in certain situations. Steel Cyclone is quite useless atm so having that 6 second 20% damage reduction buff added to the steel cyclone ability instead of inner beast would actually give wars a reason to use the best looking ability we have and benifit from it.

Agreed.

[Churchill]

Are you trying to give Kitru a fit? You can't say things like that around here!



Agreed.

Heavily mind the caveats I listed.

[Exstal]

Are you trying to give Kitru a fit? You can't say things like that around here!

Except the math agrees with what Churchill is saying :/

[Dlewis1986]

lol what I don't understand is why they just didn't use infuriate as a mit mech since you'll be able to run it every sixty seconds anyway which is a decent cast time. Also if they were to make unchained act as blood bath that gave you maybe 75 percent of health from all damage dealt for it's lasting time I could see war keeping it's identity. Also I always wondered why steel cyclone didn't just cast fracture so it would be be a good ability to use with bb venge then sc which would make for decent aoe healing and mob threat.

[Hammerfist]

You are forgetting that Inner Beast isn't the only thing that is going to be changed: with Defiance you'll get a PERMANENT 20% bonus to HP restoration, which means that you won't save your wrath stacks anymore and probably use Inner Beast any time it's avaiable. The healing role will therefore go back to the healers and the damage mitigation one to you: after all you are a tank, not a one-man-party, so let your healers heal you.

[Vortok]

People who think the current IB is better than the proposed change haven't stopped to think what main tanking a 24 man will look like in terms of incoming damage.

Sure, Crystal Tower sounds like a lot of it will be three 8 mans that meet up here and there, but I'm sure we'll also have some traditional fights in a 24 man (CT or future content) where one tank is taking the vast majority of the damage in an encounter designed around more than 2 healers being present. Current Inner Beast would be trash in that scenario.

[xenopi]

I have a solution, why not make steel cylone get the -20% dmg taken buff and inner beast stay the same probem solved