WAR Issues left unaddressed.

[Paikis]

The proposed changes to WAR look OK. I'm not a huge fan of the change in tanking style from a health-tap style to mitigation, but I think the changes overall are OK... I will miss my ~4k Inner Beast heals, but I'll survive.

That being said, there are a few issues with skills that went completely unaddressed with these changes. I am not going to make suggestions, simply point out what these issues are and leave it up to others to make suggestions.

1. Foresight. This ability is still useless. It gets macro'd into one of your main combo abilities and then you pretend it doesn't exist. Either that or you use it with another lack luster ability and pretend that two bad abilities equal one OK ability.

2. Bloodbath. This is again either macro'd into an ability and forgotten about, or only used when Vengeance is active. The healing does add up, but the time required for this to happen is far too long for this to be meaningful.

3. Stun. The reduction in the recast of this ability is off. Most things that need to be stunned are 15 or 30 seconds. The recast reduction to 20 does not in any way help with this. The 30 second abilities are stunnable now, and the 15s will still require someone to help you. You still need someone else to help you, when the stated goal was to improve this. Fail.

4. Silence. This is an issue that affects most of the game, and not just WARs. PLD, BRD, MNK and SCH are the only jobs with a silence available at all. The SCH silence is auto-cast by the support pet and is not really viable. The MNK silence requires the monk to be in a certain stance or it can't be used. Having your PLD silence presents its own problems; It has a long animation and it is another thing that your tank needs to worry about. More DPS classes need to have viable silences, but failing that, give one to the other tank. The current situation encourages dual bards. This should change.

5. TP regeneration. WAR is the largest TP hog in the game and it is also the only job that cannot regenerate its primary resource. PLD is similar, but they can stretch their TP out forever by simply using Flash or Shield Swipe, an option that isn't available for WAR.

6. No utility. This is a general issue for the WAR, albeit minor. No blind, no silence, no pacification, no cover, no rez, no utility at all really.


It's late and I'm sure I've forgotten something, but this will do to start.

[Kal-El]

A few points in response to this.

-Shield Swipe is pretty much useless at 50
-Foresight is lackluster. But I still cross it with PLD because it's one of few cross class abilities
-WAR stun is off the GCD. This is a massive bonus.
-TP costs have been reduced pula you don't need to rely on using your wrath stacks so these are TP free abilities. Pretty useful
-Why would a PLD cross Rez?
-cover isn't much of a big deal but now holmgang kicks covers ass!
-you can use flash
-Silence shouldn't be given to every job. Just makes everything too homogenised
- Again we use bloodbath which you have a trait for. It's still handy.

There are more but I can't be assed

[Gardes]

Give an inch...?

[Garnatian]

Foresight deserves a change. Bloodbath is fine. Stun is fine. No silence is fine. TP regeneration is fine, better now with the patch. Other than the blind (doesn't work on a lot of encounters) and silence, all that utility is worthless.

You just got made the go-to MT and OT and you're still asking for more buffs when the majority aren't needed.

[Gorehound]

Foresight and Bloodbath: Yes, these abilities are still lackluster. The MAR cross-class abilities could use work.
Stun: We do not need to be stun bots. The cool down has been reduced, increasing quality of life.
Silence: We do not need silence. There are other classes with silence.
TP Regeneration: The changes to wrath mean that can use our wrath abilities more liberally. This is a good TP buffer. Not only that, they reduced the TP cost of a couple moves.
Utility: All of these are paladin utilities. If we had these, why even have a paladin?

[JeTaisNoobie]

I doubt they accidentally left those unaddressed. I'm sure they felt those re-works would've been sufficient to boost us up to the level of a paladin. However, I do agree that those skills could use some thought, based on whether SE reduces the buffs already made.

It's true we could use a silence in our array, and your reason for it is to get rid of double bards set up in coil groups. That's a really good idea, but just take a second to consider groups who haven't been doing double bards and yet manage through coil turns 1&2. I know for sure my group has completed turn 2 without double bards at some point of time. The idea is the same for stuns, especially for turn 5.

[OmegaSinX]

The proposed changes to WAR look OK. I'm not a huge fan of the change in tanking style from a health-tap style to mitigation, but I think the changes overall are OK... I will miss my ~4k Inner Beast heals, but I'll survive.

That being said, there are a few issues with skills that went completely unaddressed with these changes. I am not going to make suggestions, simply point out what these issues are and leave it up to others to make suggestions.

1. Foresight. This ability is still useless. It gets macro'd into one of your main combo abilities and then you pretend it doesn't exist. Either that or you use it with another lack luster ability and pretend that two bad abilities equal one OK ability.


2. Bloodbath. This is again either macro'd into an ability and forgotten about, or only used when Vengeance is active. The healing does add up, but the time required for this to happen is far too long for this to be meaningful.

3. Stun. The reduction in the recast of this ability is off. Most things that need to be stunned are 15 or 30 seconds. The recast reduction to 20 does not in any way help with this. The 30 second abilities are stunnable now, and the 15s will still require someone to help you. You still need someone else to help you, when the stated goal was to improve this. Fail.

4. Silence. This is an issue that affects most of the game, and not just WARs. PLD, BRD, MNK and SCH are the only jobs with a silence available at all. The SCH silence is auto-cast by the support pet and is not really viable. The MNK silence requires the monk to be in a certain stance or it can't be used. Having your PLD silence presents its own problems; It has a long animation and it is another thing that your tank needs to worry about. More DPS classes need to have viable silences, but failing that, give one to the other tank. The current situation encourages dual bards. This should change.

5. TP regeneration. WAR is the largest TP hog in the game and it is also the only job that cannot regenerate its primary resource. PLD is similar, but they can stretch their TP out forever by simply using Flash or Shield Swipe, an option that isn't available for WAR.

6. No utility. This is a general issue for the WAR, albeit minor. No blind, no silence, no pacification, no cover, no rez, no utility at all really.


It's late and I'm sure I've forgotten something, but this will do to start.

With the changes they announced;I believe Yoshi P and the Dev team did a great job. I know some people are not happy because they gave warrior mitigation abilities, but lets face it, giving Warrior Mitigation is what they needed MOST and its what 99% of the community complained about. No matter how much SE could have boosted our healing abilities, it would eventually get outscaled like it is now because eventually you will fight something that hits too hard to heal, which will put stress on healers and will make PLD a better option and we'll be back in the same boat where we are now. Although I dont agree with all your points, you do make some good points.


1. Foresight: With all the changes to the other abilities if SE buff this too, I think it would make Warrior Possibly OP and make it the Go to Tank. Also, Keep in mind that this is a cross class skill, so any changes to it would also impact PLD, MNK, and DRG. SE has already said that it wasnt there intention to make PLD survivability as strong as they did, buffing this would essentially be buffing PLD even more.

2. Bloodbath: I agree with you here. Bloodbath healing vs Incoming Damage is like trying to fight a Forest Fire with a water gun. I Think they should keep Bloodbath for cross class the same, but make enhance bloodbath increase healing to 50% of damage dealt.

3. Stun: I think the CD on this is Just right. I say this because this is a off GCD Stun which is also Free. If SE made it any shorter, it would make alot of fights tooo easy (Ifrit, Chimera etc). This Keeping this CD at 20sec does 2 things. 1 Keeps PLD in demand, 2. Keeps alot of fights from becoming trivial.

4. Silience 4 Jobs with Silence is enough. Giving Jobs mix utility encourage party diversity. Think it would be bad for the game if every class had stuns and silences.

5. TP Regen: Unless your spamming Overpower (which you shouldnt be) You shouldnt have issues with TP. Even in a worst case senerio that you do somehow run out of tp. You can still use Flash 6-9 times while you wait for TP to recover.

6. Utility: I Agree. WAR needs some utility but to be fair, alot of class/jobs need utility. Maybe SE could Give WAR a ability like that boost Parties Damage by 5%, just throwing it out there.

[Telepathic]

The buffs basically give you unlimited TP if you are not spamming OP. The wraith changes have unleashed Inner Beast usage. Even before the 2.1 TP reductions if you use IB every time it's available you will never run out of TP. I've done 10 minute dummy rotations and never went below 800 TP.

[UrbanLucrece]

Can we let the 2.1 patch come and stay a bit before WAR gets bashed again <(^^)/
It's not suppose to become a PLD clone, do same things with same effectivness or better, don't expect changes to become what you want but use the changes to try to achieve what you want, with different jobs, PLD & WAR combo will probably be the best "tank".

[Hanabira]

i dont really see the point of reducing stun.. i use it on the first AK boss for mind flay (and 30 seconds was perfect because the ability is on 30 second timer) and for the soul summoning guy in AK, thats about it. As far as i know, nothing worth stunning is even stunnable.