WAR Issues left unaddressed.

[Paikis]

The proposed changes to WAR look OK. I'm not a huge fan of the change in tanking style from a health-tap style to mitigation, but I think the changes overall are OK... I will miss my ~4k Inner Beast heals, but I'll survive.

That being said, there are a few issues with skills that went completely unaddressed with these changes. I am not going to make suggestions, simply point out what these issues are and leave it up to others to make suggestions.

1. Foresight. This ability is still useless. It gets macro'd into one of your main combo abilities and then you pretend it doesn't exist. Either that or you use it with another lack luster ability and pretend that two bad abilities equal one OK ability.

2. Bloodbath. This is again either macro'd into an ability and forgotten about, or only used when Vengeance is active. The healing does add up, but the time required for this to happen is far too long for this to be meaningful.

3. Stun. The reduction in the recast of this ability is off. Most things that need to be stunned are 15 or 30 seconds. The recast reduction to 20 does not in any way help with this. The 30 second abilities are stunnable now, and the 15s will still require someone to help you. You still need someone else to help you, when the stated goal was to improve this. Fail.

4. Silence. This is an issue that affects most of the game, and not just WARs. PLD, BRD, MNK and SCH are the only jobs with a silence available at all. The SCH silence is auto-cast by the support pet and is not really viable. The MNK silence requires the monk to be in a certain stance or it can't be used. Having your PLD silence presents its own problems; It has a long animation and it is another thing that your tank needs to worry about. More DPS classes need to have viable silences, but failing that, give one to the other tank. The current situation encourages dual bards. This should change.

5. TP regeneration. WAR is the largest TP hog in the game and it is also the only job that cannot regenerate its primary resource. PLD is similar, but they can stretch their TP out forever by simply using Flash or Shield Swipe, an option that isn't available for WAR.

6. No utility. This is a general issue for the WAR, albeit minor. No blind, no silence, no pacification, no cover, no rez, no utility at all really.


It's late and I'm sure I've forgotten something, but this will do to start.

[Kal-El]

A few points in response to this.

-Shield Swipe is pretty much useless at 50
-Foresight is lackluster. But I still cross it with PLD because it's one of few cross class abilities
-WAR stun is off the GCD. This is a massive bonus.
-TP costs have been reduced pula you don't need to rely on using your wrath stacks so these are TP free abilities. Pretty useful
-Why would a PLD cross Rez?
-cover isn't much of a big deal but now holmgang kicks covers ass!
-you can use flash
-Silence shouldn't be given to every job. Just makes everything too homogenised
- Again we use bloodbath which you have a trait for. It's still handy.

There are more but I can't be assed

[Enjin]

SNIP

As a 50 PLD and WAR a response to your response:
-shield swipe is TP positive - and it's good for snap aggro mid combo
-Spirits Within is off the GCD -- warrior has no silence at all
-Not even sure why you brought up Rez for cross class - we get it your cross class sucks
-Cover is one of the best PLD skills. I use it constantly. It's huge on Turn 4 and can even help out your counterpart tank when healers are moving for rot.
-Flash doesn't give us blind. We only take it because we're constantly TP starved and it's something. Blind WAY better on pally.
-I agree, but give it to the right jobs, not a pet. It does not balance a game when you have to bring at least 1 PLD. You can't really run coil with double WAR without double BRD.

[Kal-El]

SNIP

Also a 50 PLD and WAR. I'm not going to slate your argument and I'm just looking for discussion here
-Never needed shield swipe for aggro? Maybe that's just me but I +1'd my Curtana as soon as.
-I mentioned WAR off GCD for stun because it's a huge bonus. Silence again is a bonus for having a PLD. I'm *assuming* after the changes WAR will have its uses perks that PLD will be lacking. Should every class have a silence then? Might make things a bit boring. But that's just my opinion.
-I brought up Rez because the OP did. He mentioned that as a bonus for PLD. Which it really isn't.
-I rarely use Cover to be fair but it has come in very handy that's true. Haven't done turn 4 yet so you'd have more knowledge with that. But holmgang now does basically the same thing after 2.1 plus adds a *no death* bonus [could still be very tricky for healers but still handy!]
-Blind diminishing return is pretty crap and now that overpower increases even more enmity combined with Steel Cyclone enmity increase you don't really need flash
-I think they're aiming to bring 1 WAR and 1 PLD. Rather than double anything. I haven't seen the BRD patch notes yet but I do hope something has changed a bit!

[mythicrose]

I haven't seen the BRD patch notes yet but I do hope something has changed a bit!

If the tank forums are any indication of people's reactions, you'll know when the BRD patch notes hits. The coastlines along many continents are going to shift 25 miles inland, the island nations in the Pacific will no longer exist, and even the entirety of Japan may drown from the salty tears that will swell the oceans.

[Enjin]

Also a 50 PLD and WAR. I'm not going to slate your argument and I'm just looking for discussion here
SNIP

• Tab shield swipe. It's also more TP efficient. I have +1 curtana. Getting snap aggro on turn 4 saves lives. If I can stun an add by breaking stoneskin it saves healers. I have since switched to WAR solely for Turn 4.
• You can't stun any important boss abilities in coil, you have to silence. Not having a silence on the tank limits group comp options, hence the double WAR comment.
• The actual bonus is stoneskin - but yeah we agree on rez being pointless.
• Holmgang will not allow you to bypass stacks like HG does.
• WARs don't get the additional blind on blind. DR has nothing to do with it, there's nothing to DR. Flash still has a place as you can't overpower behind you.

[Kitru]

[*]Tab shield swipe. It's also more TP efficient. I have +1 curtana. Getting snap aggro on turn 4 saves lives. If I can stun an add by breaking stoneskin it saves healers. I have since switched to WAR solely for Turn 4.

WAR *sucks* on T4, especially on the knights/soldiers, and not just because of the rubbish CD suite we've got right now. You do not get any of the secondary benefits of your attacks (like Wrath stacks, Maim's buff, Storm's Eye's debuff) when an attack is fully absorbed by a shield so any attack that you use on the soldier is going to be completely and utterly wasted. I *really* hope it's something that they fix eventually.

[Necaust]

Paladins can Flash to AOE Blind. Its good for trash. I'd argue for Overpower to blind but that's just boring. Where's the Steel Cyclone stun?

[DartFx]

A few points in response to this.

-Shield Swipe is pretty much useless at 50
-Foresight is lackluster. But I still cross it with PLD because it's one of few cross class abilities
-WAR stun is off the GCD. This is a massive bonus.
-TP costs have been reduced pula you don't need to rely on using your wrath stacks so these are TP free abilities. Pretty useful
-Why would a PLD cross Rez?
-cover isn't much of a big deal but now holmgang kicks covers ass!
-you can use flash
-Silence shouldn't be given to every job. Just makes everything too homogenised
- Again we use bloodbath which you have a trait for. It's still handy.

There are more but I can't be assed

A few points in regards to this.

-WAR stun is off GCD, sure nice. PLDs have a stun thats on demand and lasts longer, sorry if you cant afford to interrupt 1 enmity combo to stun. Seriously, sorry.
-I dont think WARs are the biggest TP hogs, that would be monk. However, a WAR can get 4 flashes off(if lucky) while a PLD can get ...how many? ty, oh sorry, forgot to mention, you guys can recover tp while flash spamming.
-Cover is a HUGE deal, helps save someone. And are you really Q.Q about Holmgang, should i remind you about hallowed ground?
-Woooooooooo! We can flash, it's pretty useless since it doesnt blind, oh wait i guess thats a PLD exclusive trait, eh..
-You're right, silence SHOULDN't be given to every class. Yay, we agree on 1 thing, you should transfer to balmung and we can be friends nao.
-Bloodbath, traited.. still useless for us, even more for you, but eh.. go look at the flash comment.

There are more, but I can't be assed

On a side note: Not trying to start an argument, just correcting a few flaws with your post.

[Kal-El]

And are you really Q.Q about Holmgang,

LOL

Mate I play WAR as well. I'm happy that WAR is getting buffed!

But by the sound of things you're looking for a larger buff?

The reason I posted is because I thought the WAR buff was a huge boost to the class (that was much needed) yet some people seem to be moaning about it.

Cover is a huge deal? O_o do you even play PLD?

You seem really angry?

Edit- Flash spam? You're better tab targeting your enmity combo. Even on like 5 mobs since flash enmity isn't that great. Please don't jump to conclusions and take that as a "PLD NEEDZ FLASH BUFF".

PLD is fine as it is and I'm actually excited to get my WAR MTing Coil =]

This. I actually used Duty Finder to do Titan HM for the giggles and some PLD who barely broke 4.5k hp immediately assumed he was going to MT and rushed titan before I even had the chance to tell him if he would like to MT for the experience. Mind you, in my gear and food I have 7.7k HP. I just love it how PLDs assume they own the place xD.
So, what did i do you ask? Simple. I took hate from him and watched him Q.Q his way to half of his emnity bar.

Ahhh I now understand why you didn't like my comments. You have a hatred for PLDs.

LOL.

Some of us use both classes to support our raid parties in different ways instead of showing our superiority over a guy that tried Titan without knowing it, while being overgeared for the content.

Keep up the good work buddy