PUG/MNK Optimization

[Rochetm]

Love how you ignore my statement of "insane damage potential" followed by me mentioning the combination of the entire monk skillset, and chose to mention one ability just to make yourself feel special or derail my comment. Incase you were confused, i was talking about the insane damage potential of the entire skill set of monks when used PROPERLY. Most monks do not use their skillset properly. Also, ignoring the 5% crit chance on true strike from behind is just being plain old lazy.

Sorry but 10 potency and 5% crit on any fight where there is a risk of losing 5% damage buff. So unless stacking the hell out of SS and/or the boss is being really nice and not hitting you with anything it is not going to work out.

[JuranDesiku]

Sorry but 10 potency and 5% crit on any fight where there is a risk of losing 5% damage buff. So unless stacking the hell out of SS and/or the boss is being really nice and not hitting you with anything it is not going to work out.

Can anyone translate? Maybe I'm a bit tired but, idk.

[EasymodeX]

He was referring to the general combination of "everything a Monk does". That said, True Strike is a DPS increase in most scenarios and is underrated. Personally I'm annoyed because I had to re-adjust my hotbars to stick it in there, and I need to practice using it more now :\.

[JuranDesiku]

My twin snakes buff lasts enough for two rotations. Does that mean i have enough skill speed? By the time my last snap punch or demolish goes off depending on if i need to refresh my dots or not, twin snakes is right about to fall off. It clips nearly perfectly. Nearly being the keyword, but good enough.

[EasymodeX]

It's not necessary to get a 2.0 GCD to make True Strike a DPS increase*.

* Assuming you don't inject additional attacks like TOD/ID/FR in that Twin cycle and you don't disconnect from the boss for mechanics.

That's analysis done by idiots who don't understand the combat system / can't model competently.

[enil]

It's not necessary to get a 2.0 GCD to make True Strike a DPS increase*.

* Assuming you don't inject additional attacks like TOD/ID/FR in that Twin cycle and you don't disconnect from the boss for mechanics.

That's analysis done by idiots who don't understand the combat system / can't model competently.

Maybe you should show us instead of calling people idiots?
Assuming higher than 2.0GCD and using True Strikes you will have a total of 6GCD between Twin Snake applications (Twin - Coeurl - Opo - True Strike - Coeurl - Opo - Twin). Your twin snakes buff will drop off before your second Twin - meaning you lose 10% on Twin Snakes and any possible autoattacks/off gcd attacks you might apply. If somehow this is not the case can you explain why?

[Mishaela]

Maybe you should show us instead of calling people idiots?
Assuming higher than 2.0GCD and using True Strikes you will have a total of 6GCD between Twin Snake applications (Twin - Coeurl - Opo - True Strike - Coeurl - Opo - Twin). Your twin snakes buff will drop off before your second Twin - meaning you lose 10% on Twin Snakes and any possible autoattacks/off gcd attacks you might apply. If somehow this is not the case can you explain why?

What EasymodeX is describing is something like this:


You don't need 2.0 but you can't quite make it work with 2.2 either. 2.1 (or just under to pad for lag, button delay, etc.) is all you need.

[EasymodeX]

1. True Strike is a minor DPS gain even if you drop the Twin buff on the subsequent Twin. I did the math in the other thread. It's pretty straightforward.

2. It's slightly more than a minor DPS gain if you have enough SS for the first Twin to buff the second.

3. It takes roughly +50SS (391SS) to do this, plus or minus your lag and how well you press buttons.


It does not take a 2.0 GCD. The buff from Twin applies after the attack executes. Attacks read buffs based on beginning of their execution. Hence the +/- 0.7 second animation/execution of the Twin Snakes attack provide a +/- 0.7s buffer.

As a result you only need a 2.08-ish GCD. More SS helps, but you only need in the neighborhood of +50. +70 or so works, +80, whatever. Nowhere near the purported 491SS (+150) that people claim.


The specific mechanics behind applying buffs and reading buffs is extremely obvious to anyone who plays a Monk and pays any attention to their GL stacks unless they FATE grinded 100% from 1-50.

If GL3 has 0.5 seconds left, you can press Snap Punch and the GL3 buff will actually drop off your bar before the Snap Punch completes its execution and re-applies GL3.

[enil]

I'm aware of the animation delay and the fact that it checks at the start of the animation for buff refreshing (obvious to any who has seen GLx3 fall off and then come back with x3) - but has it been conclusively tested that it calculates for damage/buffs at the start of the animation as well?

I have not read anything - the easiest way to test this I think would be to pop B4B and use an ability and then try again as the buff is falling off.

edit: Also can you link your math to why True Strike is still a DPS gain?

Twin Snakes is 140 Potency. then multipled by 1.1 to simulate 10% damage
True Strike is equivalent of 150 Potency. then multiplied by 1.025 to simulate the extra 5% crit.

Given all other stats equal - I'm not sure which is the most accurate or accepted damage formula as of now but from my understanding the scaling works somewhat like this in regards to potency. (AP + Potency / 100) x WDMG and other modifiers. Since only the potency matters we only need to calculate the modifier for that specific part.

[(AP + 140)/100] x 1.1 (6.644)
[(AP + 150)/100] x 1.025 (6.2935)


My current Attack Power is 464 unbuffed.
I get a multiplier of 6.644 for Twin Snakes and 6.2935 for True Strike. This does not include the chance for an auto-attack which would greatly imbalance it towards the side for Twin Snakes.

[EasymodeX]

but has it been conclusively tested that it calculates for damage/buffs at the start of the animation as well?

(1) This was done re: DOT clipping testing.
(2) In order for Snap Punch to re-apply the GL3 (and not GL1) in the scenario you observed, it must read your buffs at the beginning of the animation (or rather, the end of the instantaneous spellcast), because you lost GL3 mid-animation. Sidenote: this is observed for AF3/UI3 stacks for BLMs as well, similar to the GL3 case.