So which is it Yoshi?

[Thunderz]

Giving out ilevel90 for grinding the easiest content at level 50 is pretty dumb

its not challenge or even fun. When the hardest content in the game isn't BiS and you have to swap in Af2 then yeah its a slap in the face for people who raid (some allagan and AF2 have the exact same stats)

personally if they want to keep doing this then the next set of Token gear should be 1 tier behind the raided content (ilevel 110 raided, ilevel 100 token)

That way its actually worth getting all the raid gear and be proud of your accomplishment. not this joke of a system

[Giantbane]

As I said in another thread about this, when turns 1-4 can be cleared in DL, and there is currently nothing harder than Twintania, the rate at which you gear up is irrelevant. So the "hard-core" players can get gear faster to help them clear... the exact same content that the casuals can.

That was apparently a mistake. They didn't test PLD in coil, they designed coil around 2x WAR tanks. I think you'll be hard pressed to clear coil with 2 WAR tanks while your etire raid wears DL.

They're not going to make the current content harder (either by nerfing PLD or buffing coil), but moving forward, expect a harder end game.

[Sephirah]

That was apparently a mistake. They didn't test PLD in coil, they designed coil around 2x WAR tanks. I think you'll be hard pressed to clear coil with 2 WAR tanks while your etire raid wears DL.

They're not going to make the current content harder (either by nerfing PLD or buffing coil), but moving forward, expect a harder end game.

I highly doubt they didn't test pld in coils, they may have not tested 2 pld in coils assuming everyone would use a pld/war combo, but regardless, you can clear turns 1-4 in DL, pretty sure double WAR could do this too, I've just never tried it.

But even if what you said was correct, and they never tested PLD in coils, and it wasn't intended for groups in DL to clear turns 1-4, it is how it is now, and they have to make adjustments moving forward taking that into account, regardless of what their original intentions were.

So you can't brag up and down about your Allagan gear and wave your internet bozack around like a maniac. Big deal. The game's not all about you Junior Jenkinses. What's so wrong about people who have things going on in real life having the chance to get gear of the same item level on their terms and not have to go through the toxic politics of endgame groups?

There is nothing wrong with wanting to be a casual player.

I don't understand this mentality. Just because we want some incentive for end-game raiding does not mean we are saying casuals aren't allowed to play the game and enjoy it.

Casuals view end-game "hard-core" content as something they are excluded from due to their erratic schedules, well us "hard-core" players feel like we're being excluded from a challenging progression.

How would you feel if you worked every day, saved up your money, and then bought that nice new car you always wanted. Then someone walks up and complains about not having enough time to do that work and earn that money, so the dealer says "well.... ok, here you can have it anyway".

Edit: more stupid limits

They already said PLD is uninentionally making some of the coil fights too easy. It's not like the PLD move set is complicated enough that they missed some super secret PLD strat that's giving PLD the edge. The only explination is that they did most of their balancing with WAR tanks and sort of glossed over making sure it was equally as difficult as the PLD.

So, yea. I bet devs mained WAR and balanced the dungeon around that. Then they did it a few times a PLD to make sure it was doable and called it a day without serious balance testing between the two classes.

Again, however they balanced it is IRRELEVANT to what is in the game RIGHT NOW. And that, is a dungeon that can have turns 1-4 cleared in DL gear, WAR or PLD makes no difference, they're both do-able.

I think you're missing the point entirely about what we're talking about here. We aren't talking about how difficult a dungeon should be, or class balance. We're talking about people getting gear thats just as good, and in some cases better than binding coils, for running wanderer's palace.

[Hayward]

Giving out ilevel90 for grinding the easiest content at level 50 is pretty dumb

its not challenge or even fun. When the hardest content in the game isn't BiS and you have to swap in Af2 then yeah its a slap in the face for people who raid (some allagan and AF2 have the exact same stats)

personally if they want to keep doing this then the next set of Token gear should be 1 tier behind the raided content (ilevel 110 raided, ilevel 100 token)

That way its actually worth getting all the raid gear and be proud of your accomplishment. not this joke of a system

So you can't brag up and down about your Allagan gear and wave your internet bozack around like a maniac. Big deal. The game's not all about you Junior Jenkinses. What's so wrong about people who have things going on in real life having the chance to get gear of the same item level on their terms and not have to go through the toxic politics of endgame groups?

[Licus]

So you can't brag up and down about your Allagan gear and wave your internet bozack around like a maniac. Big deal. The game's not all about you Junior Jenkinses. What's so wrong about people who have things going on in real life having the chance to get gear of the same item level on their terms and not have to go through the toxic politics of endgame groups?

Wish that logic applied in all facets of life. I would love an all expenses paid three month vacation to puerto rico to drop in my lap just from waiting for enough time to pass. No need to work for such things if I can just mindlessly wait for stuff.

[zdub303]

i do agree with the OP... myth gear probably shouldn't have ever been BiS gear.

They probably should have made myth gear i85 - to replace CT gear until you could get BiS Allagan drops.

As it stands, esp with the increased cap in 2.1, they will make it really hard for people to want to continue to run coil once their toon is geared in a mix of allagan/myth and full i90.

This gives those hardcore basement dwellers something to work for (full allagan) while making the difference between myth and allagan fairly small for the 99%ers.

[Taruranto]

It's kinda baffling, because some Jobs have better stuff on myth than Coil. I'm a SCH, I cleared up to T4 and I'm preparing myself T5, I prefer to wear my AF Body over the Allagan Body, does this mean i'm less skilled?

So you can't brag up and down about your Allagan gear and wave your internet bozack around like a maniac. Big deal. The game's not all about you Junior Jenkinses. What's so wrong about people who have things going on in real life having the chance to get gear of the same item level on their terms and not have to go through the toxic politics of endgame groups?

"Everyone must be able to get everything" is the kind of mentality that is killing MMORPG. If you don't have time to work toward end-game content and gears, well, it means you won't get them. High dedication=high reward.

[zdub303]

So you can't brag up and down about your Allagan gear and wave your internet bozack around like a maniac. Big deal. The game's not all about you Junior Jenkinses. What's so wrong about people who have things going on in real life having the chance to get gear of the same item level on their terms and not have to go through the toxic politics of endgame groups?

Directly from Yoshi though, "We also believe that the strongest gear available at a given time should not be obtainable by all players." - However, Myth is available to all players and in some slots is the absolute strongest gear in the game atm.

[Giantbane]

I highly doubt they didn't test pld in coils, they may have not tested 2 pld in coils assuming everyone would use a pld/war combo, but regardless, you can clear turns 1-4 in DL, pretty sure double WAR could do this too, I've just never tried it.

But even if what you said was correct, and they never tested PLD in coils, and it wasn't intended for groups in DL to clear turns 1-4, it is how it is now, and they have to make adjustments moving forward taking that into account, regardless of what their original intentions were.

They already said PLD is uninentionally making some of the coil fights too easy. It's not like the PLD move set is complicated enough that they missed some super secret PLD strat that's giving PLD the edge. The only explination is that they did most of their balancing with WAR tanks and sort of glossed over making sure it was equally as difficult as the PLD.

So, yea. I bet devs mained WAR and balanced the dungeon around that. Then they did it a few times a PLD to make sure it was doable and called it a day without serious balance testing between the two classes.

And they also said they weren't going to nerf PLD or buff WAR and coil to make it as difficult as intended. It is more important to them that they don't hurt groups already clearing coil, than to provide the originally intended difficulty. So we just get to live with an easier coil 1-5.

With that said, since their original intent seems to have been to create content that was more difficult than it actually turned out, I expect any new end game content they introduce (coil 5-10) will be more difficult such that you need better gear before you clear it.

[Naunet]

personally if they want to keep doing this then the next set of Token gear should be 1 tier behind the raided content (ilevel 110 raided, ilevel 100 token)

No, all they need to do is not provide an entire set of gear for tokens. The token gear should be used as side grides and supplemental items for when raid drop RNG is not treating you well. There's no need to drop it a tier behind the raid.