Thread: WAR 2.1 Patch Notes

Originally Posted by Gamemako

That would be incorrect. You are comparing tools with different uses. Defiance directly compares to Shield Oath as follows:

Shield Oath
+25% effective HP
+25% effective healing

Defiance
+25% effective HP
+20% effective healing

What you want to compare with Inner Beast is Rampart, which is more like 4.44% to 4.48% (neglecting Infuriate). That comparison is not really that valuable either, though. There's a lot that goes into it which I'm not going to discuss here -- need to run more math and all.

thank christ for people like you.

pure passives alone paladin is still ahead, mitigation timers on paper put paladin ahead... but inner beast is going to be available a lot more often than any paladin cd, it's completely feasible for warriors to have IB and/or vengeance up for every single death sentence, whereas paladin do not have rampart and/or sentinel available every time.

Originally Posted by Gamemako

That would be incorrect. You are comparing tools with different uses. Defiance directly compares to Shield Oath as follows:

Shield Oath
+25% effective HP
+25% effective healing

Defiance
+25% effective HP
+20% effective healing

What you want to compare with Inner Beast is Rampart, which is more like 4.44% to 4.48% (neglecting Infuriate). That comparison is not really that valuable either, though. There's a lot that goes into it which I'm not going to discuss here -- need to run more math and all.

I've always wondered why people say 25%, when the tooltip says 20%, is the tooltip incorrect? Though I have seen on some sites that it says 25%, but not entirely sure.

I don't think it's quite fair comparing Rampart to IB/Storm's Path mostly because you aren't going to use the ability guaranteed as soon as it comes off CD, while there is no reason not to use IB/Storm's Path whenever available. That and it's use will not differ from fight to fight, while things like Block/Parry will depending on what abilities the mob uses.

Originally Posted by Garnatian

I've always wondered why people say 25%, when the tooltip says 20%, is the tooltip incorrect? Though I have seen on some sites that it says 25%, but not entirely sure.

taking 20% less damage is the same thing as having 25% more hp

paladin has 100 HP with shield oath on, warrior has 125 HP with defiance on

they both take a 100 damage hit

paladin mitigates it to 80, survives with 20 HP, 20% of his total

warrior takes the full 100, survives with 25 HP, 20% of his total

the passive mitigation has always been balanced, it's the fact that 5x wrath only gave 15% that caused the gap, coupled with paladin cooldowns...

Originally Posted by Garnatian

I don't think it's quite fair comparing Rampart to IB/Storm's Path mostly because you aren't going to use the ability guaranteed as soon as it comes off CD, while there is no reason not to use IB/Storm's Path whenever available. That and it's use will not differ from fight to fight, while things like Block/Parry will depending on what abilities the mob uses.

You aren't using Inner Beast to take on one autoattack before a Landslide swing, either. That would be a waste. You're using Inner Beast right before the Mountain Buster, so that you take out a significant amount of damage from the attack. Hell, you never used Inner Beast on cooldown -- you just used it after the attack instead of before.

Originally Posted by PiedPiper

As you can see, using numbers that, while rounded, are actually rather accurate to current raid conditions, defiance and shield oath are nearly equal. Shield oath has a very minor advantage (0.8%).

You could just as well say the damage is 7499, and that PLD is therefore 4.16% ahead. Neither are a meaningful result. A healing bonus will not allow your tank to survive a big hit, and neither bonus is relevant to that. The more accurate comparison is that Shield Oath reduces the amount of healing required by 20% while Defiance reduces it by 16.667%. Natively, a healer has to spend 4.16% more time and MP healing. You could then include other aspects, such as blocking, self-healing, and the net effect of mitigation abilities. Again, there's a lot to it.

//EDIT:

Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Does Holmgang (as of this moment) have any real use?

Right now, not much. You can lock down the second WP boss with it when it runs off. It's pretty blah right now.

Originally Posted by Gamemako

You aren't using Inner Beast to take on one autoattack before a Landslide swing, either. That would be a waste. You're using Inner Beast right before the Mountain Buster, so that you take out a significant amount of damage from the attack. Hell, you never used Inner Beast on cooldown -- you just used it after the attack instead of before.



You could just as well say the damage is 7499, and that PLD is therefore 4.16% ahead. Neither are a meaningful result. A healing bonus will not allow your tank to survive a big hit, and neither bonus is relevant to that. The more accurate comparison is that Shield Oath reduces the amount of healing required by 20% while Defiance reduces it by 16.667%. Natively, a healer has to spend 4.16% more time and MP healing. You could then include other aspects, such as blocking, self-healing, and the net effect of mitigation abilities. Again, there's a lot to it.

You'd be correct about the old IB, you'd rarely ever use it outside infuriate. However, now you use IB as often as possible now as saving Wrath stacks no longer serves any purpose, meaning you're simply wasting stacks when you're using abilities that generate them since each Wrath stack equates to some percentage of mitigation.

Now, you'd rotate between abilities like Vengeance and Infuriate for you damage mitigation.