Square please don't ruin the War

[Vmage]

Prepare to be stomped down by all the eggheads and their 'mathehmatecs'. I just want to crush things! Numbers make my head hurt...

yeah, facts are silly... warriors are just as good as paladins even before these changes! also the world is flat and the sun revolves around it because we're the center of the universe.

also:

and do better dps than Paladins (by far)

another common misconception.. shield oath paladin vs. defiance warrior is roughly the same (higher potency on war skills, higher penalty on defiance) non-defiance warrior vs. sword oath paladin is again roughly the same (higher potency on warrior skills, +50 potency per auto attack from sword oath)

edit:

I pop foresight and featherfoot for big damage, like mb on titan, and make sure my buffs and debuffs are up before attempting self-heals. Not much, but we don't all just wait to take the damage and pray. Time IB after initial heals, boom, infuriate for wrath back so heals don't suffer for next burst, if needed. And wars are 'harder' to play because we have more combos to do than pld, that's all.

you mean like popping rampart and/or sentinel and/or bulwark and/or foresight and/or hallowed ground for big burst? yeah, absolutely unique to warrior definitely making them harder to play.

And wars are 'harder' to play because we have more combos to do than pld, that's all.

thank you for the direct answer

so you're really saying that warrior is harder to play because you do SE>BB>BB instead of halone>halone>halone for threat?

[Amyas]

yeah, facts are silly... warriors are just as good as paladins even before these changes! also the world is flat and the sun revolves around it because we're the center of the universe.


edit:


you mean like popping rampart and/or sentinel and/or bulwark and/or foresight and/or hallowed ground for big burst? yeah, absolutely unique to warrior definitely making them harder to play.



thank you for the direct answer

so you're really saying that warrior is harder to play because you do SE>BB>BB instead of halone>halone>halone for threat?

Is it not? Is it not factually correct that doing '1,2,ctrl3,1,3,4,1,3,4' is more 'complex' than '1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3'? Also plds have their combo debuff built in to their main enmity combo and don't ever have to worry about keeping that up. And wars have precious few 'oh crap' buttons like pld, so we have to learn when to pop them for the best efficiency (sure plds do too but its less of a 'must')

[Riyos]

another common misconception.. shield oath paladin vs. defiance warrior is roughly the same (higher potency on war skills, higher penalty on defiance) non-defiance warrior vs. sword oath paladin is again roughly the same (higher potency on warrior skills, +50 potency per auto attack from sword oath)

edit:


you mean like popping rampart and/or sentinel and/or bulwark and/or foresight and/or hallowed ground for big burst? yeah, absolutely unique to warrior definitely making them harder to play.

so you're really saying that warrior is harder to play because you do SE>BB>BB instead of halone>halone>halone for threat?

Lol, i'm guessing if you had ever used the war.
"is roughly the same" this is fantastic, because obv maim, berserk and storm's eye don't exist
Seriously dude, you don't know what you are talking about

[TaneshimaPopura]

I like Warrior but that doesn't make me blind on issues which are glaringly obvious that Paladins are superior for currently available content. I would pay the price of a Ferrari to drive a Porsche but there is a limit into making me pay the price of a Ferrari and drive a Celica. That is where I cut the fine line between feasibility of play.

This changes sure they will make warrior the better tank. But it will not swap Paladin's position to where Warrior is currently at where these changes makes Paladin incapable of doing any content in either MT or ST roles. Because they have already perform both roles before this change hits.

[Kettle]

Please enlighten us, with maths, as to how the proposed changes would possibly make a warrior an 'invincible terminator with the pld's mitigation and dd's dps'.

[Riyos]

/

PLD

Convalescence +30% heal every 120s for 20s
Shield of Oath -20% of damage
Rampart is -20% damage every 90s for 20s
Sentinel is -40% every 180s for 10s
Bulwark is +60% block every 180s for 15s
Hallowed Ground is a true Invulnerability ability - you will stay at 100% HP for the duration
Shield, so block and higher parry rate

WAR

Defiance +20% heal
Wrath(5 stacks) +10% CHR(so more autoheal)
Thrill of Battle +20% of HP(and auto heal) every 120s for 20s
Inner Beast -20% damage every ~22-24(not counting berserk/vengeance and infuriate) seconds for 6 seconds and 100% auto heal.
Vengence is -30% damage for 15s every 120s.
Holmgang is a "can't be killed" ability, you can still be damaged to 1HP, it brigns the target to you and blocks it for 6 secs
Storm's Path 50% auto heal and reduce damage dealt by enemies for a period of time
Much more damage (and offensive skills)
Much more HP
Much more enmity(and better AoE enmity)

[PessimiStick]

These changes *probably* make WAR marginally better than PLD. Which is fine. It's really hard to have things be completely balanced. Considering the previous setup where PLD was flatly superior on anything resembling hard content, I think the situation in 2.1 is greatly preferable. PLDs have a slight bonus to incoming heals, block, slightly stronger cooldowns (40% vs. 30%, HG keeping you at your max HP vs. new Holmgang, Convalescence trait, etc.), and their debuff is on their main threat tool. WAR has a slight damage advantage, and it looks like slightly more versatile DR cooldowns now. (IB will be available almost any time you'd want to have it)

[Trematode]

This is not going to make us OP'ed ffs.. stop whining, this is just bringing us on par with PLD's

[Leiron]

Don't forget Paladns get access to stone skin and WAR does not.

[Eightbit]

I big bit of information is being withheld right now though. We don't exactly know the details behind storm's path. To me that will really show if warrior ends up over powered. Also I think hallowed ground still has a decent advantage over the new holmgang since in holmgang you are still taking damage, you just can't die for 6s. Essentially a healer can ignore a pld when he uses hallowed, but a healer still has to keep an eye on a warrior in holmgang. Another thing is I think PLD has better controlled mitigation, with cool downs that require no wind up, warrior has to wind up and plan ahead for most of their reductions. In short my judgement is still out until I play it.

Oh yeah PLD is still beats warrior on utility too with access to cnj skills, a silence, and the best stun in game.