Cover?

[Phreak]

I'd use cover if the damage I was redirecting was mitigateable, but it isn't. The only thing I've seen work on cover damage is blocks.

Shield Oath, CDs, they have no effect on the cover damage you take so when you cover someone you're essentially them.

[Ferth]

I'd use cover if the damage I was redirecting was mitigateable, but it isn't. The only thing I've seen work on cover damage is blocks.

Shield Oath, CDs, they have no effect on the cover damage you take so when you cover someone you're essentially them.

Pretty sure this isn't true. One of the strategies for Binding coil turn 1 that people have used involves a paladin covering the main tank and using hallowed ground. It is possible though that you take damage based on the defense of your cover target, though... in which case covering a mage while using a cooldown could seem like you are getting hit for the same as if you yourself were taking unmitigated damage.

Hmm, I wonder if testing has been done on this?

[CurlyBruce]

Pretty sure this isn't true. One of the strategies for Binding coil turn 2 that people have used involves a paladin covering the main tank and using hallowed ground.

Wait what? ADS basic attacks are magic damage so Cover shouldn't be able to block them and if you are going to Hallowed Ground, why wouldn't you just Provoke the mob and Hallowed Ground then? Then you can save Cover for something else.

[Ferth]

Wait what? ADS basic attacks are magic damage so Cover shouldn't be able to block them and if you are going to Hallowed Ground, why wouldn't you just Provoke the mob and Hallowed Ground then? Then you can save Cover for something else.

Sorry, I meant turn 1.

[Phreak]

Pretty sure this isn't true. One of the strategies for Binding coil turn 1 that people have used involves a paladin covering the main tank and using hallowed ground. It is possible though that you take damage based on the defense of your cover target, though... in which case covering a mage while using a cooldown could seem like you are getting hit for the same as if you yourself were taking unmitigated damage.

Hmm, I wonder if testing has been done on this?

Hallowed ground does not prevent cover damage or reduce it in any way, the damage the target would have taken equals the damage you WILL take when you cover someone. It's obvious you haven't tested this at all.

[PArcher]

Hallowed ground does not prevent cover damage or reduce it in any way, the damage the target would have taken equals the damage you WILL take when you cover someone. It's obvious you haven't tested this at all.

Yeah, was going to say that. Been running a bunch of WP Speed-runs as a WHM recently; PAL uses Hallowed and Cover on some pulls, still takes damage.

[Maelwys]

I've also got Cover on my Provoke Macro, but they're both <t> not <tt>

It's rare that something rips hate from me, but for the few occasions where it's needed (in WP to run past stalkers or on the 2nd boss, or "helping" another tank that's run out of cooldowns on Duty Finder HM fights, etc) I'll just press my "Target Party Member #N" key and mash the button.

Oh, and the (limited) testing I've done suggests that at least for Physical damage, Covered damage is mitigatable. I know I take less damage from the Tonberry Stalkers than my Mages.

[Phreak]

I've also got Cover on my Provoke Macro, but they're both <t> not <tt>

It's rare that something rips hate from me, but for the few occasions where it's needed (in WP to run past stalkers or on the 2nd boss, or "helping" another tank that's run out of cooldowns on Duty Finder HM fights, etc) I'll just press my "Target Party Member #N" key and mash the button.

Oh, and the (limited) testing I've done suggests that at least for Physical damage, Covered damage is mitigatable. I know I take less damage from the Tonberry Stalkers than my Mages.

It's all in your head unfortunately, I've tested this several times across many different classes with/without them wearing armor/buffs etc. I always take damage equal to what they were taking prior to using cover on them.

[Maelwys]

It's all in your head unfortunately, I've tested this several times across many different classes with/without them wearing armor/buffs etc. I always take damage equal to what they were taking prior to using cover on them.

Last time I can remember randomly testing it was in WP last week with a SCH buddy - on the Stalker, because that's about the only time in regular gameplay that I encounter an event where hate runs wild and I can't just use Provoke instead of Cover.

I definitely took less raw damage than they did, but I can't recall offhand if that was due to Blocks/Parries kicking in rather than Shield Oath, extra passive +Defence or any active cooldowns. I suppose it could be coded to treat the damage from Cover as a raw HP decrease unaffected by resistance buffs (like Bloodbath's raw HP increase unaffected by healing buffs), but that seems a little odd to me.

We're doing Coil tonight, but we should have time afterwards for me to double-check this for both Physical and Magic damage.

(I hate to be someone who states the equivalent of "Pics or it didn't happen", but the amount of times I've seen people state they've used the Cover + Hallowed combo makes me wary to just take your - or anyone's - word for it...)

[Maelwys]

We're doing Coil tonight, but we should have time afterwards for me to double-check this for both Physical and Magic damage.

OK. So. Testing.

Myself (50 PLD, i70/i90 gear) and a Scholar friend (Similar Gear) went down to MorDonuts and found ourselves a Friendly level 46 Giant Gigas.

This giant was consistently hitting my scholar friend for ~103-109 damage.
This giant was consistently hitting me for ~71-78 damage (no shield oath)

When I popped Cover on the SCH, the giant hits him and I cover him - I still take ~71-78 damage.

From about 30 minutes of testing on this single mob, we discovered that this damage could be BLOCKED and PARRIED and reduced by raising DEFENCE (+Protect and my "Foresight" cooldown) but nothing else I did by myself caused it to be reduced - using Cover and then immediately using a cooldown such as Rampart, Sentinel, Shield Oath and Hallowed Ground all did nothing.

Then we decided to get tricky.

First my Scholar friend used Stoneskin - both on himself and on me. This was completely bypassed by Cover - I still got hit for damage, and Stoneskin stayed up on us both. Same happened for Adloquium - the effect was completely bypassed.

Second the Scholar used Virus (mob stat debuff) - this reduced the damage taken noticably, both in and out of cover - which makes sense because as a debuff it's lowering the damage the mob outputs, rather than directly reducing the damage I or my friend receive.

Then finally the Scholar used Sacred Soil (+10% damage reduction patch) and things got really odd. It worked. I took about 10% less damage. And suddenly some of my own Damage reduction cooldowns started working in cover.

This was wierd. We tested further - first only having the sacred soil buff on me, then on him, then on both of us again. Sometimes it worked, other times it didn't. Almost as if it was picking what buffs to apply at random.

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Eventually, as I was examining the battle logs and about to log off for the night, inspiration struck.

There appear to be three simple rules regarding "Cover":

(i) When you use cover: the damage done to a party member is redirected onto you. This is initially affected by NOTHING except for your defence stat and Blocks/Parries. It bypasses buffs, it bypasses Stoneskin and it bypasses Shield Oath and Hallowed Ground. So the only cooldowns a Paladin has that will affect it would be Bulwark (+Block Rate) and Foresight (+Defence).

(ii) If you wait until AFTER Cover kicks in before using any cooldowns, then they will kick in and mitrigate damage normally as long as you leave enough time between activating cover and using the cooldown (They will NOT work if you pop Cover and then the cooldown right away, it appears that you need to leave a 1-2 second gap) This is true for Rampart and Sentinel and Shield Oath but NOT Hallowed Ground - Hallowed Ground, sadly, appears to NEVER work under Cover.

(iii) If you Cover someone, then use a cooldown, that cooldown only applies against the Covered damage - NOT the damage you take after the Cover duration expires. So if you pop Shield Oath mid-cover, you'll need to drop it and cast it again afterwards.

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We only started seeing this behaviour after Sacred Soil because Sacred soil reapplies its buff every few seconds - which started happening mid-cover. Once I recognised what was happening with Sacred Soil, I could see a similar pattern in the rest of our tests - we successfully tested this several times, example below:

+ The SCH used Sacred Soil
+ I used Cover on him.
+ He was then hit, which I took for 78 damage
+ He was hit a second time, which I took and blocked for 57 (-25%) damage
+ I used Sentinel (-40% damage cooldown)
+ He was then hit a third time, which I took and parried for 33 (-23%) damage

Battle Log Screenshot here

Another time I covered him and got hit once - a parry for 58 (-23%) - then used Sentinel and Bulwark and saw four blocks in a row - three for 35 (-25%) damage and one for 42 (-25%) damage - Log Screenshot

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TL;DR version:

Basically if you cover your teammate, and the Mob whacks them 5 times... you will take 5 hits of damage. If you wait a second or two after using Cover and then pop Bulwark + Sentinel, then the first hit might get you for normal damage, but hits 2 through 5 will be reduced by 40% and have a high chance to be blocked.

You CANNOT use "damage ignoring" abilities like Stoneskin or Hallowed Ground at all, but you CAN use damage-reducing cooldowns like Rampart and Sentinel and Shield Oath after you Cover (or allied ones such as Sacred Soil!). Bulwark or Defense-buffing abilities like Protect and Foresight can be used either before or after you Cover.