Combat will be what kills this game [end of days! redeem! blah blah!]

[Ispen]

My favorite example of this was during a HM Garuda fight.

DF group was having a hard time, a wipe was imminant, but we had lv3 LB and I was a BRD and still near full health. (<3 Quelling Strikes)

2nd to last player dies, leaving only me. I pop Healer LB3, see everyone start to get up, party's health bars all white... Garuda kills me... fade to black and resets the fight.

The whole party still has raise sickness except for me.


So, the game knew they were raised. But still reset the grid. Why?

Were they in the raise animation? if so that's probably why no one was active to aggro her and she didn't have aggro on anyone cause they had died so the fight reset.

[FinagleABagel]

Taking into account the other thread that makes a fairly compelling case that SE relies on server side processing, that would mean you HAVE to wait for all animations to complete. Hence, the claim that animation lockout was working as intended.

It used to bother me that my instants were really just off-GCD, but I've grown used to it.

Personally, it seems like a lot of the complaints stem from simply bad play. I play a healer, so I understand that its not simply doing things fast but its doing things at the right time. Even with the change to res, you will still have to rely on the target to res at the right time - particularly on things like Titan HM.

[Steeled]

1. Taking into account the other thread that makes a fairly compelling case that SE relies on server side processing, that would mean you HAVE to wait for all animations to complete. Hence, the claim that animation lockout was working as intended.

2. Personally, it seems like a lot of the complaints stem from simply bad play. I play a healer, so I understand that its not simply doing things fast but its doing things at the right time. Even with the change to res, you will still have to rely on the target to res at the right time - particularly on things like Titan HM.

1.) Not really, the game can do anything it wants. They could allow you to execute every action at once, within a single second. You could, as some bosses can, cast multiple spells at once. Server or client limitiation has little impact here.

2.) Yes indeed, it's important for the healer to raise from a safe spot and the dps to time it. Certain fights are more difficult to do this in than others, but it's all about coordination, and common sense. Things can happen like the freshly raised target being the victim of land slide, but these things happen.

I have an understanding of game programming and client/server communications. I'm no professional so I keep my critques to a minimum, but take care not to give them a lot of leeway on bad design choices.

Things like not being able to stack macros are a sort of an additional straw to break the camel's back, there's not so bad in themselves, but are frustrating.

[FinagleABagel]

I have an understanding of game programming and client/server communications. I'm no professional so I keep my critques to a minimum, but take care not to give them a lot of leeway on bad design choices.

Said every forum poster ever who was unable to clearly articulate and defend an argument.

Care to explain why the animation lockout exists as it does? Do you *really* think that was a development CHOICE? Or is it a side-effect of server infrastructure?

[Steeled]

Said every forum poster ever who was unable to clearly articulate and defend an argument.

Care to explain why the animation lockout exists as it does?

I've made my defense for my argument. I also tried not to tout that I have some deep understanding. I do understand the basics of what's going on, but as I said early in the thread, I'm no professional at game programming.

There is no reason animation lockout exists beyond choice. Literally, the data transmission for notifying the server of an ability is very small. Animation lockouts exist literally because they think we're actually watching our animations in combat. I'm certainly not and I can't imagine that anyone is very intently. Everyone is watching their feet and boss casting bars. Everyone should be periodically checking the chat log, at least, and healers and tanks keep an active eye on player health bars.

The packets, apparently, are even smaller than other mmos, which means they should be faster. The skimpiness of the packets is how some of the hacking is done, apparently.

Assuming no animation lock, the client<->server transmission time means I could press two abilites back to back and see one animation start .2 (or whatever re-press time) seconds into the other. The game is not incapable of sending multiple packets and receiving them at the same time. Animation lock is nothing but flavor. Sardine ice cream is nothing but flavor, doesn't mean it's good.

[BoomerOU]

I enjoy the combat. To each their own though.

[Kazamoto]

They were, but agro or no, it either should have continued the attempt (she was at 3%) or NOT given the party raise sickness.

[FinagleABagel]

They were, but agro or no, it either should have continued the attempt (she was at 3%) or NOT given the party raise sickness.

You encountered a rare scenario. The more common thing happens on Titan HM when the party wipes and you are stuck in a gaol.

If the boss is unable to immediately target a party member, the fight restarts. This will be a bit worse when invulnerability is applied to the res animation (depending on how its implemented).

[Steeled]

I had hoped you'd have a counter to my argument, Bagel. (An argument bagel is like a compliment sandwich)

While not what I want, imagine if abilities like Bene and HG still had their uninterruptible (><) animation but the effect went of immediately. This changes nothing for the people that think animations are important, but changes everything for the people that don't want to die even though it was used in time.

[Zfz]

If this was a game like WoW, a skill that's used "in time" would be anywhere before the moment that it is absolutely required.
For FFXIV, to use something "in time", you have to take into account the preparation action animation.

If you fail to account for it, you did not use the skill in time.

Case in point, the tank LBs are instant (at least up to level 2, never had the chance to use tank LB3).
Healer LB and attacker LB have that preparation because it was designed to have it.

Note the word "instant" in the skill tooltip refers to the cast time.
For some games, that means you press you get. But not so in FFXIV.
In FFXIV, you get a cast time, and before that cast time you have a preparation motion.
(Limit Break doesn't even have a cast time categorization on its tooltip, so it was never presented to be instant anyway)

Again, this is a design choice.

I have no problems with people lobbying to wipe this design out, it's up to the developers to decide.
But please don't keep saying "instant should be instant", because it is instant cast.
Please stop saying it is flawed or is bugged or due to server infrastructure or that "its common sense" etc.

Attacking the implementation is no way to lobby a change to a core design.