Hydaelyn at large (is there a compilation of info yet?)

[Grayve]

I believe she actually says all of Othard was under the control of the Empire ; as Doma was razed to the ground as an example. I recall it because in contradicted what I'd heard here. Of course, I was tired from coming right of work, so I may have misheard.

[Kyan]

Yes, well I am now more perplexed about the Near and Far East and the three Great Continents! If anyone can post sources and information here, quotes, quest names, etc., particularly from the update, that would be great help! I will be scouring my screenshots and things later today to do this as well. I think I will also scour the New Year's events script again!

To add to discussion on the Far East:

I believe Yugiri did mention that not *all* of Othard is fully conquered

Hmmm, this wasn't the impression I got - I really do need to reread Yugiri's script. Thank you for giving me something to focus on

The only trouble I have there is that some of the previous visitors (a la the Uma Byugo) seem to imply a fairly large and established yet still free society/city back home

Yes, I agree. I seem to have a faint recollection about one of the event ambassadors mentioning society in the north of the Far East, etc. I really want to reread this script.

Another point that bothers me. Limsa Lominsa has a very highly active trade with the Far East, and we have implications that citizens of the Far East are able to get fishing vessels into the waters off of Eorzea. If this is the case, I do not see it being overly difficult for the Domans to escape Othard. It would also make me reconsider how dominant the Garlean forces really were over Othard.

Perhaps this is what Yugiri meant by "borrowed colours", she used flags from another nation's trade ships?

I believe she actually says all of Othard was under the control of the Empire.

This was always my impression, but this is what the lore on the official website says:

• Garlean Empire The Garlean Empire controls the majority of the Three Great Continents, the enormous landmass that encompasses Eorzea.
• Garlemald was a remote and sparsely populated nation which held little more than a fraction of the northern continent of Ilsabard
• One nation after the next fell before their relentless onslaught, first those of the northlands, followed by the sovereign states of the eastern continent, Othard.

I suppose there is room in there to argue that all of Othard is not subjugated. Yet, out visitors from the Far East mention the Twelve during their stay in Eorzea for Heavensturn (even showing reverence for them, perhaps considering them apart of their own mythos). If there were neighbouring villages to kingdoms conquered by the imperial forces worshiping false gods, I wouldn't be a happy Garlean.

Also, as an aside, is there a source that says that all three Great Continents are connected by land bridge, etc? I can only assume from the Eorzean map that Ilsabard connects to Aldenard just beyond Gyr Abania. I have read in other threads that the three Great Continents are connected by land bridge, which I have not seen anywhere in game or lore in 2.0+. I think people are simply expecting the realm to be like the map of Vana'diel.

[Grayve]

Hmmm, this wasn't the impression I got - I really do need to reread Yugiri's script. Thank you for giving me something to focus on

I would like to reread it as well. She also implies she doesn't know what a primal is, asking Minfilia 'Primal'? In a questioning tone before offering to help prevent Levithans summoning.

If you speak to her after Levithan is summoned, she says

"The gods of this realm are vengeful beings. 'Tis of little wonder the Garleans fear their kind so."

To me, that implies that the gods of her realm aren't the same. They don't worship the 12 in Othard, correct?


As for the ships flying under false flags... it sounds more like the Garleans made the city states in vassals rather then outright subjugating them. And perhaps why Dhoma was razed as an example.

[Kyan]

I would like to reread it as well. She also implies she doesn't know what a primal is, asking Minfilia 'Primal'?

Actually, I think she does not know the terminology of "primal" but understands what they are.

She does mention, and I will need to rewatch the cutscene for her exact wording, but something along the lines of primals being gods that once walked amongst men in Othardian legends. And indeed, there were primals present there in the past which the Garlean empire have faced.

The eastern nations were the first to feel the newborn empire's mighty fist. It was during this campaign that the emperor witnessed firsthand the destruction wrought by the primals—an experience that led to an imperial mandate for their annihilation.

.

To me, that implies that the gods of her realm aren't the same. They don't worship the 12 in Othard, correct?

Well, of this I can't be 100% certain. It's a grey area. Here is what evidence is present:

• When creating a new character, and starting in Ul'dah, there is this line of text from the debt collector Lalafell as he accosts the Hyur in the Quicksand before the player character and Momodi: "In the East, it is said that even a merciful god might be driven to vengeance if thrice blasphemed."
• During Heavensturn, the Far Eastern npcs say the following: Uma Bugyo: When the new totem proved the horse, it seemed the Twelve smiled upon us; for even in Eorzea, minds arch high and wide during Heavensturn...
  Red Uma Doshin: <pant><pant>...Come to relieve me? Oh, thank the Twelve.
• And, from what I recall of what Yugiri was saying, she does seem to associate primals with gods of Othard legend, or something along those lines. I really do need to reread those cutscenes... Haha.

[Myranda]

I believe she actually says all of Othard was under the control of the Empire ; as Doma was razed to the ground as an example. I recall it because in contradicted what I'd heard here. Of course, I was tired from coming right of work, so I may have misheard.

While we do want to find official sources, I will note that razing Doma as an example doesn't necessarily mean the entire continent must needs be conquered. It could just serve as a warning to those that are under Garlean control that rebellion will be put down swiftly.

Perhaps this is what Yugiri meant by "borrowed colours", she used flags from another nation's trade ships?

Yes, that's exactly what was meant.

Also, as an aside, is there a source that says that all three Great Continents are connected by land bridge, etc? I can only assume from the Eorzean map that Ilsabard connects to Aldenard just beyond Gyr Abania. I have read in other threads that the three Great Continents are connected by land bridge, which I have not seen anywhere in game or lore in 2.0+. I think people are simply expecting the realm to be like the map of Vana'diel.

I can't really think of any case in Vana'diel that would be a land bridge aside from Jeuno, which wasn't really a land bridge though. It was quite literally an actual man-made bridge (multiple bridges, actually) that just happened to have a city at their center. The land bridges of XIV mean more along the lines of how Panama is just a thin strip of land that connects North/Central America with South America. An isthmus, if you will.

Actually, I think she does not know the terminology of "primal" but understands what they are.

She does mention, and I will need to rewatch the cutscene for her exact wording, but something along the lines of primals being gods that once walked amongst men in Othardian legends. And indeed, there were primals present there in the past which the Garlean empire have faced.

.

I would have to agree she's just not familiar with the term and probably would more easily have understood the Imperial term eikon, and also likely had never actually seen one in the flesh. Given that the Empire was hardly even founded 50 years ago to start dealing with the primal threat, she'd have to be pretty piss poor at knowing the rather recent history of her nation if she new nothing at all of them.

[Kyan]

I can't really think of any case in Vana'diel that would be a land bridge aside from Jeuno, which wasn't really a land bridge though. It was quite literally an actual man-made bridge (multiple bridges, actually) that just happened to have a city at their center. The land bridges of XIV mean more along the lines of how Panama is just a thin strip of land that connects North/Central America with South America. An isthmus, if you will.

It has been a while since I played XI, but yes, I forgot it was man made bridges, hahaha. But I guess, what I was implying is the notion that people are saying the "three Great Continents" are physically connected in Hydaelyn without evidence, but that could be because of the expectation and familiarity of Vana'diel's middleland continents being physically connected.

Yes, that's exactly what was meant [referring to "borrowed colours"].

Which is interesting in and of itself - I guess what I was inferring to was the fact the Garleans are not attacking specific nation's trade to the East if the Domans felt comfortable enough to borrow colours for their ships.

The only trouble I have there is that some of the previous visitors (a la the Uma Byugo) seem to imply a fairly large and established yet still free society/city back home

So, I discovered you can read a lot of the quest dialogue on XIVDB. In the Limsa part of the Heavensturn event, "Heavenly Power", we are to haul carrots for the harvest. This is said by the Far Eastern assistance who has injured himself carrying carrots: "...Come to relieve me? Oh, thank the Twelve. Blasted yoriki and his ideas! He's a northeasterner, you know. They're all off their gourd."

It is these little one liners found throughout the event (hinting at a wider, free realm), the general gaiety of the Easterlings (they are having a lot of fun!), and the fact that they come freely to Eorzea every Heavensturn just to celebrate, rather than plead for help to liberate their continent, strikes me as really odd. Whilst I concede defeat (and ate my cleric's circlet) in regards to Othard being the Far East, I am still hedging my bets that the Far East is either an extremely large continent, or there is multiple large landmasses which make up the Far East. It would explain a lot of the information present, but this is just my inference.

[JGwinters]

It has been a while since I played XI, but yes, I forgot it was man made bridges, hahaha. But I guess, what I was implying is the notion that people are saying the "three Great Continents" are physically connected in Hydaelyn without evidence, but that could be because of the expectation and familiarity of Vana'diel's middleland continents being physically connected.

The continents being connected by a land bridge comes from early marketing materials, before 1.0 was released I think. I'm sure someone with more resources readily available could give you a quote. I'm not sure if it's been mentioned since that (maybe at the 1.0 site it was?), but nothing since has contradicted that piece of info so there is no reason to stop thinking that that is how the continents are laid out.

[Enkidoh]

After finally getting to the 2.2 storyline and rereading Yugiri's comments about her homeland, she pretty clearly states what happened and the geopolitical situation that is/was on Othard:

how the Garlean Empire is tearing itself apart due to Emperor Solus finally dying, causing 'the War of Succession' over who would take the throne, given Solus never chose a successor.

The Domans, who were subjugated like all the other nations on Othard, decided to try and take advantage of the political turmoil by rebelling openly against their Imperial oppressors, which tragically backfired, in the Garlean forces counterattacked and literally crushed the rebellion to serve as a warning to the other subject nations. The rebellion wasn't just put down, the Empire literally destroyed the entire nation - Yugiri mentions her small band of refugees are literally all those who survived the rebellion and managed to flee.

So yeah, according to Yugiri's comments Doma wasn't a 'free' nation - it was a vassal of Garlemald like every other nation on Othard, so the information she gives fits with what has long been stated on the Lodestone about Othard being entirely under the Garlean jackboot.

[Myranda]

I don't think anyone was ever trying to say that Doma was free. Just that there may be others on Othard that are. Of all the places I've seen it mentioned that "all" of Othard is conquered it's seemed plausible to me that it may be only a figure of speech that avoids mentioning all the little nuances.

If it is entirely subjugated though, that still leaves us with the question of where exactly our Heavensturn visitors hail from and how broad the meaning of "Far East" is.

And going back to the "borrowed colors" Kyan, I think they only flew the new colors to avoid pursuers later in the journey, not when they launched. So it's not that the Garleans aren't attacking ships, they must have just used a convenient time to slip past the Garlean's notice and once out of range, didn't want to be rediscovered.

[Enkidoh]

Yeah, the Heavensturn npcs do seem rather contradictory, especially given the fact that they are clearly Asian-influenced, and that the Domans seem to share similar cultural aspects (the refugees call chocobos 'horsebirds', just like the Heavensturn ones did, and interestingly, all seem to wear the same outfit with an Asian character written on their backs (whether this is their nation's 'crest' or something cultural I have no idea, but it seems interesting all the same).