Hydaelyn at large (is there a compilation of info yet?)

[Anonymoose]

I believe Yugiri did mention that not *all* of Othard is fully conquered

Did she? I hope so. I know I mentioned it but I found that in my Rise of the White Raven post-it notes and wasn't sure if it applied to this patch's information or something yet-to-be-mentioned, lol.

[Myranda]

Hmmm. I'd have to go back and check now since I've been looking at a lot of different lore sources lately building up my FC trivia event. I thought it was from her, but I could be wrong. Obviously I can't see your post-its but I know I saw it somewhere, there must be a legitimate source for it.

[Grayve]

I believe she actually says all of Othard was under the control of the Empire ; as Doma was razed to the ground as an example. I recall it because in contradicted what I'd heard here. Of course, I was tired from coming right of work, so I may have misheard.

[Kyan]

Yes, well I am now more perplexed about the Near and Far East and the three Great Continents! If anyone can post sources and information here, quotes, quest names, etc., particularly from the update, that would be great help! I will be scouring my screenshots and things later today to do this as well. I think I will also scour the New Year's events script again!

To add to discussion on the Far East:

I believe Yugiri did mention that not *all* of Othard is fully conquered

Hmmm, this wasn't the impression I got - I really do need to reread Yugiri's script. Thank you for giving me something to focus on

The only trouble I have there is that some of the previous visitors (a la the Uma Byugo) seem to imply a fairly large and established yet still free society/city back home

Yes, I agree. I seem to have a faint recollection about one of the event ambassadors mentioning society in the north of the Far East, etc. I really want to reread this script.

Another point that bothers me. Limsa Lominsa has a very highly active trade with the Far East, and we have implications that citizens of the Far East are able to get fishing vessels into the waters off of Eorzea. If this is the case, I do not see it being overly difficult for the Domans to escape Othard. It would also make me reconsider how dominant the Garlean forces really were over Othard.

Perhaps this is what Yugiri meant by "borrowed colours", she used flags from another nation's trade ships?

I believe she actually says all of Othard was under the control of the Empire.

This was always my impression, but this is what the lore on the official website says:

• Garlean Empire The Garlean Empire controls the majority of the Three Great Continents, the enormous landmass that encompasses Eorzea.
• Garlemald was a remote and sparsely populated nation which held little more than a fraction of the northern continent of Ilsabard
• One nation after the next fell before their relentless onslaught, first those of the northlands, followed by the sovereign states of the eastern continent, Othard.

I suppose there is room in there to argue that all of Othard is not subjugated. Yet, out visitors from the Far East mention the Twelve during their stay in Eorzea for Heavensturn (even showing reverence for them, perhaps considering them apart of their own mythos). If there were neighbouring villages to kingdoms conquered by the imperial forces worshiping false gods, I wouldn't be a happy Garlean.

Also, as an aside, is there a source that says that all three Great Continents are connected by land bridge, etc? I can only assume from the Eorzean map that Ilsabard connects to Aldenard just beyond Gyr Abania. I have read in other threads that the three Great Continents are connected by land bridge, which I have not seen anywhere in game or lore in 2.0+. I think people are simply expecting the realm to be like the map of Vana'diel.

[Grayve]

Hmmm, this wasn't the impression I got - I really do need to reread Yugiri's script. Thank you for giving me something to focus on

I would like to reread it as well. She also implies she doesn't know what a primal is, asking Minfilia 'Primal'? In a questioning tone before offering to help prevent Levithans summoning.

If you speak to her after Levithan is summoned, she says

"The gods of this realm are vengeful beings. 'Tis of little wonder the Garleans fear their kind so."

To me, that implies that the gods of her realm aren't the same. They don't worship the 12 in Othard, correct?


As for the ships flying under false flags... it sounds more like the Garleans made the city states in vassals rather then outright subjugating them. And perhaps why Dhoma was razed as an example.

[Kyan]

I would like to reread it as well. She also implies she doesn't know what a primal is, asking Minfilia 'Primal'?

Actually, I think she does not know the terminology of "primal" but understands what they are.

She does mention, and I will need to rewatch the cutscene for her exact wording, but something along the lines of primals being gods that once walked amongst men in Othardian legends. And indeed, there were primals present there in the past which the Garlean empire have faced.

The eastern nations were the first to feel the newborn empire's mighty fist. It was during this campaign that the emperor witnessed firsthand the destruction wrought by the primals—an experience that led to an imperial mandate for their annihilation.

.

To me, that implies that the gods of her realm aren't the same. They don't worship the 12 in Othard, correct?

Well, of this I can't be 100% certain. It's a grey area. Here is what evidence is present:

• When creating a new character, and starting in Ul'dah, there is this line of text from the debt collector Lalafell as he accosts the Hyur in the Quicksand before the player character and Momodi: "In the East, it is said that even a merciful god might be driven to vengeance if thrice blasphemed."
• During Heavensturn, the Far Eastern npcs say the following: Uma Bugyo: When the new totem proved the horse, it seemed the Twelve smiled upon us; for even in Eorzea, minds arch high and wide during Heavensturn...
  Red Uma Doshin: <pant><pant>...Come to relieve me? Oh, thank the Twelve.
• And, from what I recall of what Yugiri was saying, she does seem to associate primals with gods of Othard legend, or something along those lines. I really do need to reread those cutscenes... Haha.

[Myranda]

I believe she actually says all of Othard was under the control of the Empire ; as Doma was razed to the ground as an example. I recall it because in contradicted what I'd heard here. Of course, I was tired from coming right of work, so I may have misheard.

While we do want to find official sources, I will note that razing Doma as an example doesn't necessarily mean the entire continent must needs be conquered. It could just serve as a warning to those that are under Garlean control that rebellion will be put down swiftly.

Perhaps this is what Yugiri meant by "borrowed colours", she used flags from another nation's trade ships?

Yes, that's exactly what was meant.

Also, as an aside, is there a source that says that all three Great Continents are connected by land bridge, etc? I can only assume from the Eorzean map that Ilsabard connects to Aldenard just beyond Gyr Abania. I have read in other threads that the three Great Continents are connected by land bridge, which I have not seen anywhere in game or lore in 2.0+. I think people are simply expecting the realm to be like the map of Vana'diel.

I can't really think of any case in Vana'diel that would be a land bridge aside from Jeuno, which wasn't really a land bridge though. It was quite literally an actual man-made bridge (multiple bridges, actually) that just happened to have a city at their center. The land bridges of XIV mean more along the lines of how Panama is just a thin strip of land that connects North/Central America with South America. An isthmus, if you will.

Actually, I think she does not know the terminology of "primal" but understands what they are.

She does mention, and I will need to rewatch the cutscene for her exact wording, but something along the lines of primals being gods that once walked amongst men in Othardian legends. And indeed, there were primals present there in the past which the Garlean empire have faced.

.

I would have to agree she's just not familiar with the term and probably would more easily have understood the Imperial term eikon, and also likely had never actually seen one in the flesh. Given that the Empire was hardly even founded 50 years ago to start dealing with the primal threat, she'd have to be pretty piss poor at knowing the rather recent history of her nation if she new nothing at all of them.

[Kyan]

I can't really think of any case in Vana'diel that would be a land bridge aside from Jeuno, which wasn't really a land bridge though. It was quite literally an actual man-made bridge (multiple bridges, actually) that just happened to have a city at their center. The land bridges of XIV mean more along the lines of how Panama is just a thin strip of land that connects North/Central America with South America. An isthmus, if you will.

It has been a while since I played XI, but yes, I forgot it was man made bridges, hahaha. But I guess, what I was implying is the notion that people are saying the "three Great Continents" are physically connected in Hydaelyn without evidence, but that could be because of the expectation and familiarity of Vana'diel's middleland continents being physically connected.

Yes, that's exactly what was meant [referring to "borrowed colours"].

Which is interesting in and of itself - I guess what I was inferring to was the fact the Garleans are not attacking specific nation's trade to the East if the Domans felt comfortable enough to borrow colours for their ships.

The only trouble I have there is that some of the previous visitors (a la the Uma Byugo) seem to imply a fairly large and established yet still free society/city back home

So, I discovered you can read a lot of the quest dialogue on XIVDB. In the Limsa part of the Heavensturn event, "Heavenly Power", we are to haul carrots for the harvest. This is said by the Far Eastern assistance who has injured himself carrying carrots: "...Come to relieve me? Oh, thank the Twelve. Blasted yoriki and his ideas! He's a northeasterner, you know. They're all off their gourd."

It is these little one liners found throughout the event (hinting at a wider, free realm), the general gaiety of the Easterlings (they are having a lot of fun!), and the fact that they come freely to Eorzea every Heavensturn just to celebrate, rather than plead for help to liberate their continent, strikes me as really odd. Whilst I concede defeat (and ate my cleric's circlet) in regards to Othard being the Far East, I am still hedging my bets that the Far East is either an extremely large continent, or there is multiple large landmasses which make up the Far East. It would explain a lot of the information present, but this is just my inference.

[SirEdeonX]

First of all I wanna say that this thread is awesome, and super informative. Got me all pumped up to reroll a new character on the game and reread all the storyline.
And thank god I did, cuz now I can help out with this:

Another point that bothers me. Limsa Lominsa has a very highly active trade with the Far East, and we have implications that citizens of the Far East are able to get fishing vessels into the waters off of Eorzea. If this is the case, I do not see it being overly difficult for the Domans to escape Othard. It would also make me reconsider how dominant the Garlean forces really were over Othard.

The LV. 2 Lominsan sidequest "Licensed to Reave" has you deliver a couple of spice sampler to both Coral Tower and the Bismarck.
When you deliver the sample to the Bismarck, Lyngsath, the guildmaster, says the following:

Lyngsath: A new sample from the Seventh Sage? Alright, let's 'ave a whiff of it, then.
Lyngsath: Hmmm... Ain't smelled nothin' like it afore. The note as came with it says it's a root what grows on Othard.
Lyngsath: Last I 'eard, Othard was under imperial rule. 'Ow the seven 'ells did Carvallain manage to get 'old o' this?

So Lyngsath confirms from the beginning that Othard is in fact under Imperial rule. Now how does Limsa get a hold of a lot of things from the East?

Carvallain: With the Admiral's blessing, we engage in a form of trade with Garlean ships. Everything we do, you may rest assured, is within the law.

As the sidequest summary states:

In completing the task, you have endeared yourself to Carvallain. He reveals to you his ambitions to grow rich as a privateer, attacking and looting Garlean ships in the Admiral's name.

[Kyan]

First of all I wanna say that this thread is awesome, and super informative. Got me all pumped up to reroll a new character on the game and reread all the storyline.
And thank god I did, cuz now I can help out with this:

Fantastic! Thank you Edeon! I do recall doing that quest, but it was so long ago! You're right, maybe I should create a new character to find these lore tidbits form the beginning quests, too!