Why the netcode issue exists, and why it cannot be fixed.

[Sinth]

I have a question for the OP.

I'm not nearly as knowledgeable on this subject as the OP, but I do understand it.

Here's my question: If the server is dictating live-state, why do buffs sometimes go off but have no effect? I don't mean like HG/Bene deaths. I mean like sometimes Rampart, Foresight, Bloodbath, and even HG are consumed but the buff never registers (the user still lives) and the buff has no effect, yet the ability goes on cooldown.

In a server live-state, the thing I would expect to see is perhaps that you don't appear to get the buff (no status icon) but you actually do. Packet corruption of the client saying "I get Bloodbath, the server saying "You can has bloodbath, we agree it should be off cooldown", and the client not properly rec'ing/handling the recognition packet.

This is easiest to see when it happens to Bloodbath, because scrolling combat text shows us all the minimal heals. It's harder with rampart to say "Oh, well is he hitting me 20% weaker or not?", but Bloodbath or HG are pretty easy to see. (HG is not immune to all damage though, so some people may falsely observe this)

Hmm.. Perhaps it could be the sending packet that is corrupted/failing? Maybe the server tracks whats on cooldown just to prevent hacking, but the client has some basic protection. Maybe the client throws it on cooldown, notifies the server, and here's where the break happens?

On that specific issue its impossible to say without inside knowledge of the source code. It could possibly be a result of packet loss in addition to a server/client error checking issue. It could possibly be a bug in the client. It could possibly be a bug on the server.

[Jonny_Tapas]

OK so let's take OP's post into light.

This won't be fixed! Therefore I put the next question at hand.

Why design content to rely so heavily on this? There are plenty of mechanically fun fights that are nearly unaffected by this...

Garuda and Cadeuceus come to mind.

You give us a bazillion things to dodge and a system that doesn't perform well in that situation, we're going to complain... Since the system can't be changed, let's be honest, we'd prefer content that performs well within the system.

[kukurumei]

OK so let's take OP's post into light.

This won't be fixed! Therefore I put the next question at hand.

Why design content to rely so heavily on this? There are plenty of mechanically fun fights that are nearly unaffected by this...

Garuda and Cadeuceus come to mind.

You give us a bazillion things to dodge and a system that doesn't perform well in that situation, we're going to complain... Since the system can't be changed, let's be honest, we'd prefer content that performs well within the system.

Simple answer: Left hand doesn't know what right hand is doing, SE tends to be a little more idiot that it doesn't even remember which is left and which is right.
Complex answer: It can be fix, they don't have the brain power to do it easily, and the decision falls into limbo.

[FinagleABagel]

Simple answer: Left hand doesn't know what right hand is doing, SE tends to be a little more idiot that it doesn't even remember which is left and which is right.
Complex answer: It can be fix, they don't have the brain power to do it easily, and the decision falls into limbo.

Except that isn't true at all. If you are to believe the OP, you can't just change the server architecture on a whim. I find that explanation to make a lot of sense.

I think they do design around the positional limitation, because for people that have a good connection to the game there's no problem. Remember how they increased the dodge time for Twintania hurricanes? Someone is looking at that balance.

The thing they likely did not account for is the the extent of how bad some infrastructure is and how poor some people's connections are. That isn't a problem of integration at SE, that was a problem with assumptions very early in the developmental cycle.

[kukurumei]

Except that isn't true at all. If you are to believe the OP, you can't just change the server architecture on a whim. I find that explanation to make a lot of sense.

I think they do design around the positional limitation, because for people that have a good connection to the game there's no problem. Remember how they increased the dodge time for Twintania hurricanes? Someone is looking at that balance.

The thing they likely did not account for is the the extent of how bad some infrastructure is and how poor some people's connections are. That isn't a problem of integration at SE, that was a problem with assumptions very early in the developmental cycle.

Because the OP is telling us 2nd grade math on a calculus equation. It's true only so far as stripping away 90% of the "exceptions".

Ever hear of Battlefield 4...it's been...in the news for a bit. They are actively fixing and improving their network as we speak. It is possible, it isn't even the hardest thing to do. If it has to be done even in late stages, it can be done.

SE is still 5yr behind the curve, they always have been and always will be at this rate. Bad netcode doesn't make it impossible netcode.

There is this ideal call engineering. Brute force is just...brute force, if you believe that's the only option, you really need to expand more.

[Naunet]

The thing they likely did not account for is the the extent of how bad some infrastructure is and how poor some people's connections are. That isn't a problem of integration at SE, that was a problem with assumptions very early in the developmental cycle.

I don't know a lot about network things and whatnot, but I do know that places like Korea and Japan have internet that is leaps and bounds above anything available in the US. To me, a great deal of this problem reeks of SE's inability to see beyond the borders of Japan, for the same reason they gave the entire western hemisphere the same number of servers (in a single datacenter) as one island nation.

It simply never once crossed their mind that what works in Japan wouldn't work for the rest of the world.

[kukurumei]

I don't know a lot about network things and whatnot, but I do know that places like Korea and Japan have internet that is leaps and bounds above anything available in the US. To me, a great deal of this problem reeks of SE's inability to see beyond the borders of Japan, for the same reason they gave the entire western hemisphere the same number of servers (in a single datacenter) as one island nation.

It simply never once crossed their mind that what works in Japan wouldn't work for the rest of the world.

Sorta sorta, there are very fast connections in japan, there are very slow connections, and there are connections that don't even work for 20% of the year (islands for example shut down on bad weathers).

No different then NA, if not a bit better.

I ping the NA datacenter at 35ms, and I still get stupidly bad titan run lags. Their netcode is subpar, their hardware is probably subpar, and their own estimates were probably subpar.

It's never clear cut issue except the fact that everything needs to be upto 2013 standards. Things like this is expected to be solved, because they have been solved(or mitigated to an extent).

Ever heard of GGPO, one hobby programer show the big corporations, how backwater in their thinking they were, fast forward half a decade, netcode has substantially been improved because one person did the obvious, "use their brains".

[Steeled]

The glaring problem really is that these aren't even up to 2010 standards. Seriously, decade old games have adapted better than this.

I grow tired of all the people growing super defensive about this, there's nothing to defend. More often than not, the people that defend it are buying the company line, literally.

[Sinth]

The glaring problem really is that these aren't even up to 2010 standards. Seriously, decade old games have adapted better than this.

I grow tired of all the people growing super defensive about this, there's nothing to defend. More often than not, the people that defend it are buying the company line, literally.

The problem is that the game is coded to future standards that our current network infrastructure is not yet (obviously) capable of handling in order to provide a good experience. The server running the show is the way of the future. I expect to see many more games which run the majority of their code executions in a server live-state environment to arrive in the next 5-10 years. However, SE may have been a bit too ambitious in their efforts to lead with this technology given today's typical networking speeds.

[kukurumei]

The problem is that the game is coded to future standards that our current network infrastructure is not yet (obviously) capable of handling in order to provide a good experience. The server running the show is the way of the future. I expect to see many more games which run the majority of their code executions in a server live-state environment to arrive in the next 5-10 years. However, SE may have been a bit too ambitious in their efforts to lead with this technology given today's typical networking speeds.

Then how do you explain the complete lack of predictive coding both on the client side and the server side, that has predominated the better half of post Y2K online gaming.

Or the backward failsafes for sticking with TCP, that has lead to massive ISP p2p toggling flags.

Or the FF11 like animation sync problems with network congestion instead of rollback syncing

Or how well stupidly bad it is in comparison to many MMOs that run with less hardware, less intrusions, and generally better all around "brain power".

It's not 5-10yrs ahead, that's pure BS. It's just inferior coding and planning.

Just like 2013 computers are far more energy efficient while being more powerful and perform better optimzation then 2000 era models. There is never a time that "well in the future we can brute force it".

No there is never a future that will brute force it. That's not engineering.

This isn't even about SE or FF14 anymore, this is about pure technology and theory. There's no white knighting here.