The way of the Warrior. Mitigation fix

[ZDamned]

Sorry, Maybe I wasn't specific enough here. I'm talking about balancing the potency and enmity of BB vs SP so they are equivalent enmity output - allowing us to make the choice to use BB for Damage or SP for healing without the worry of losing threat. Basically, leave BB as is for when you want to do damage - and adjust the potency of SP to make it healing oriented. It makes a trade off that causes the tank to actively make more choices.

I love that idea actually, and I have 1 suggestion to fix it up. Move it over to combo with Skull Sunder instead of Maim, adjust it to be the same Enmity as Skull sunder, so it's not the only move used in that combo.

Thanks for clarifying what you mean. It's a great Idea to me too.

[Kitru]

We already have a Potency advantage. Butchers Block is 20 Higher than Rage of Halone.

Look at the DPS/enmity calcs in my signature. The higher enmity off of Butcher's Block is drastically inhibited by the fact that one-third of our rotation is devoted to attacks that don't have high enmity modifiers, not to mention Defiance having a larger penalty to damage. It takes all of the WAR multipliers to make up for that loss of high enmity modifiers.

If Storm's Path were turned into a fundamental part of the WAR rotation (BB>BB>SP), replacing Storm's Eye would drop average enmity potency per GCD (assuming 2x enmity mod for tank stances; yes, I know it's wrong, but as long as the PLD and WAR stances are the same, it doesn't matter) from 1403.18 to 1290.10, compared to a PLD's 1355.78. It's *just* outside of the "within 5% of each other" balance point that most MMOs strive for (it would drop WAR damage to 306.57, which, compared to the PLD 297.73, is well within the 5%).

[ZDamned]

Look at the DPS/enmity calcs in my signature. The higher enmity off of Butcher's Block is drastically inhibited by the fact that one-third of our rotation is devoted to attacks that don't have high enmity modifiers, not to mention Defiance having a larger penalty to damage. It takes all of the WAR multipliers to make up for that loss of high enmity modifiers.

I totally forgot about that! Switching off Butchers Block is pure damage enmity, vs Boosted which Paladins have the whole time. Thanks for that wake up. I totally forgot that. Though, I think the reason it's there is because we need to be able to attack a boss with null Enmity attacks in order to not steal threat once it' s a 1 boss left standing fight. but yeah, that's a great point I missed entirely.

[Hulk_Smash]

Wait, what?

Why not make Wrath reduce damage by 20% per stack while you're at it. These are incredibly bad changes and not in anyway in the spirit of how WAR was made.

The WAR is a Self-Heal Tank. If his main form of "mitigating" damage is reducing it, then they have failed making interesting Tanking classes. Tanks in MMOs should approach damage mitigation from different angles, whether it's Evading, Reducing or Healing damage.

The main issue with WAR is that its "mitigation" style does not scale with content very well so they need to change the healing received as some function of damage taken for a more long term fix as opposed to a flat increase in healing received which might make WAR on par with PLD in some areas and vastly superior in others.

So, did you read the entire post, or just picked the part you didn't like and determined it was all bad?

[JBar]

Look at the DPS/enmity calcs in my signature. The higher enmity off of Butcher's Block is drastically inhibited by the fact that one-third of our rotation is devoted to attacks that don't have high enmity modifiers, not to mention Defiance having a larger penalty to damage. It takes all of the WAR multipliers to make up for that loss of high enmity modifiers.

If Storm's Path were turned into a fundamental part of the WAR rotation (BB>BB>SP), replacing Storm's Eye would drop average enmity potency per GCD

Right! What I'm saying is we make BB and SP of equivalent enmity - so you could say BB>SP>SE, BB>BB>SE, or SP>SP>SE and generate *relatively* the same enmity. We'd have to look at other venues of keeping WAR dps on par with Pallys - but it gives us the option to actually use more of our kit.

[Kitru]

Right! What I'm saying is we make BB and SP of equivalent enmity - so you could say BB>SP>SE, BB>BB>SE, or SP>SP>SE and generate *relatively* the same enmity.

To keep it balanced with PLD, you'd have to drop the enmity on BB by a lot (my math says that you'd have to drop the enmity modifier on Butcher's Block from x5 to x3 to get away with increasing Maim to x3 and Storm's Eye to x3). Basically, WAR only gets to have Maim and Storm's Eye because we have to sacrifice enmity on a regular basis to put them up (and we're expected to, in fact). Provide them with high enmity without nerfing BB and you start giving WAR *way* more than PLD (it would increase total enmity generation for WAR by about 28.3%; WAR enmity is within 3.5% compared to PLD, over when not paired up and under when they are paired up).

The problem with reducing the enmity mod on BB is that you're reducing WAR frontload enmity to less than it already is. WAR *already* has to decide between opening with BB to prevent someone from pulling off of you in the first 3 GCDs or open with SE to maximize aggro generation but risk losing aggro. Furthermore, you're not really providing much reason to differentiate the rotation. By giving SE and SP high enmity modifiers, since BB's damage/enmity advantage really isn't all that impressive, you're really just swapping the WAR rotation from BB>BB>SE to SP>SP>SE (maintain Maim and the slashing debuff for SP and get as much self healing as possible) or SP>SE (full uptime on Maim and slashing debuff while getting self healing regularly). The only reason that WAR *uses* BB, at the moment, is because it's high enmity. Give that to the other combos and it doesn't really have much of a purpose.

[DartFx]

SE should take a page from Blizzard. Make the WAR job more similar to a Brew master monk.

Defiance will:
reduce damage by 5% per wrath stack, max 25%
Increase HP by 25%
Increase parry rate by 10% per wrath stack, Max 50%
SE combo will allow stagger damage. 80% damage received, with 20% staggered over 10 secs
Last but not least, SP combo creates a damage absorb shield for 10% of max HP, with 15 sec CD

Done. WAR is fixed.

Lmfao.. this guy.
So.. you want warrior to have
25% Damage reduction
25% HP Boost
50% Parry (Not to mention the Parry percentage you already get from stats)
Idk what you meant by stagger damage
And on top of that "last but not least" 10% of about 8k hp absorption every 15 seconds...

Might as well make bloodbath a 100% damage heal. And put it on a 5 sec cooldown. We want warriors to be on par with paladins, we dont want them to be invincible. Come on now.. im sure you were trolling when you posted this.

[Zoomie]

Lmfao.. this guy.
So.. you want warrior to have
25% Damage reduction
25% HP Boost
50% Parry (Not to mention the Parry percentage you already get from stats)
Idk what you meant by stagger damage
And on top of that "last but not least" 10% of about 8k hp absorption every 15 seconds...

Might as well make bloodbath a 100% damage heal. And put it on a 5 sec cooldown. We want warriors to be on par with paladins, we dont want them to be invincible. Come on now.. im sure you were trolling when you posted this.

Someone earlier suggested a skill that made Warriors absorb ALL incoming dmg as HP for 5s with a 3 minute CD. Maybe these two know eachother.

[Hulk_Smash]

W/e. Can't have fun on a forum, then where can you have fun? It would take more than a fix to defiance to balance War for end game. On a side note. I didn't take it seriously until the guy talked about brew. He was wrong on several issues, so I to defend that. But other than that just having fun .

[CurlyBruce]

Look at the DPS/enmity calcs in my signature. The higher enmity off of Butcher's Block is drastically inhibited by the fact that one-third of our rotation is devoted to attacks that don't have high enmity modifiers, not to mention Defiance having a larger penalty to damage. It takes all of the WAR multipliers to make up for that loss of high enmity modifiers.

So I've been thinking about this and did a few of my own calculations and I don't see how WAR generates more enmity.

PLD:
150+600+1300=>2050*.8=>1640*3=>4920

WAR BB only:
150+600+1400=>2150*.75=>1612.5*3=>4837.5

WAR SE>BB:
150+190+324+200+800+1867+200+800+1867=>6398*.75=>4798.5

WAR BB>SE (assuming maim/SE up for BB):
200+800+1867+200+800+1867+180+228+324=>6466*.75=>4849.5

That's ignoring buffs but Fight or Flight is better than Berserk for overall damage increase and Spirit's/Circle only marginally less of a damage increase than Internal Release+Wrath.