Twisting [Life Surge] and [Speed Surge]

[Amineri]

I use the word twisting in reference to some other games (like LoTRO), where a class such as a bard could activate a song that would last 30 seconds, but playing the song itself would only take a few.

In these cases, the bard could "twist" the effects together to keep 3 or 4 or even 5 different effects going at once.

Now for Lancers, I think I similar result can be achieved using Life Surge and Speed Surge. Both abilities have an effect that is applied to an enemy upon a successful attack.

Life Surge : Grants 'absorb HP' to the Lancer only, for both basic attacks and weaponskills, and gives an evasion debuff to the targetted enemy.

Speed Surge : Grants 'absorb HP' to the entire party, but only for basic attack, and increases stamina regeneration for the Lancer only.

Now, after striking an enemy with either of these abilities, the on-hit effect for the enemy is applied, and it persists for around 30 seconds, even if the ability on the Lancer fades.

Note also that Life Surge has no direct effect on the Lancer... its only action is through the debuff effect applied to the enemy target.

Here is how I have been trying to use these two.

• Begin the fight with Life Surge. My stamina bar is full, so having the extra stamina regen at the beginning is not that useful.
• Strike the enemy with Life Surge, applying the evasion debuff and "Lancer only HP absorb". This is great, because it even works with weaponskills, give back around 20 to 25% of the damage dealt.
• Cast Speed Surge. Now strike the enemy, and both the Life Surge and Speed Surge effects will be in place. Regular attacks will pop up two little numbers of curing, as both the Life Surge and Speed Surge grant you HP.
• You and your party get the full benefit of Life Surge and Speed Surge for around 30 seconds.
• After Life Surge wears off the enemy, you can recast Life Surge, re-apply the effect, and then recast Speed Surge again.

Both effects last for around 30 seconds, and both abilities have a 30 second recast, so they can't stay up 100%, but can get pretty close.

I'm still playing around with this mechanic, so if anyone else messes with it and provides more insight or feedback, I'd appreciate it!

[Lienn]

This sounds very interesting indeed! I'll try it out later to see how well this works. ^^

[origamikitsune]

Indeed... I've been playing with different action palettes lately, and different skill rotations. I'll give this one a shot and see how it goes for me ^^

[Peregrine]

Using them both never occurred to me.
You'd have to prove that activating both of them would not end up burning more stamina than speed surge regenerates, which is my main concern.

[Amineri]

Using them both never occurred to me.
You'd have to prove that activating both of them would not end up burning more stamina than speed surge regenerates, which is my main concern.

This is a good point, but measuring the stamina increase of Speed Surge is a little tricky. Not impossibly so, just something I haven't done yet. My intuition is that it's really only viable with Speed Surge II, as its stamina regen feels much better then the tier I.

This thought came up for me when I discovered the Life Surge allowed me to HP regen off of weaponskills (Life Surge only works on basic attacks, so is pretty weak). This makes Life Surge much more attractive, but I found that I was running out stamina much more quickly without Speed Surge active.

I'm still not sure if twisting these helps overall, but I figured I'd toss it out for people to test out, play with and generally poke at.

[Rentahamster]

Using them both never occurred to me.
You'd have to prove that activating both of them would not end up burning more stamina than speed surge regenerates, which is my main concern.

That's why I don't do this anymore. It's too much of a hassle and not really worth it in the end. Plus, it generates too much hate in a party.

[Airlea]

Using them both never occurred to me.

Probably because you still don't have speed surge II. Both should always be an option. If you're having trouble hitting, pop on life and get the eva proc then swap back to SSII. If your acc is fine, ride SSII.

This really only applies to fights that are going to last longer than 30seconds, so pretty much just NMs unless you're overcamping.

Really hurts my head that anyone would think that simply riding 1 or the other would be optimal in all situations.

[Peregrine]

Probably because you still don't have speed surge II.
Really hurts my head that anyone would think that simply riding 1 or the other would be optimal in all situations.

Considering no one said that, you're obviously just mad from the other topic.

As another lancer said, it's not worth the hastle and probably best to just pick one or the other for that situation. I believe it. It doesn't look like it would on paper, don't have to have the abilities to necessarily come to that conclusion. You just have to be a believer in the null hypothesis sometimes, not a believer in every little thing you do mattering just because it's you that does it.

"A debuff is a debuff" is a logical fallacy. Sometimes one more doesn't matter. That statement depends on an all or none mode of thinking, when that line of thinking is more detached from reality and thus irrelevant to the truth. You have to ask what your debuff is actually worth, because it is costing you something. Not just "is it there or not."

Sometimes a debuff is just meaningless wheel spinning.

Life surge may be a complete waste of stamina compared to lancers equipping disorient and contributing to keeping it stacked to x3 with that stamina. I kick up a disorient II at the start of fights while on lancer. Not as much hate as a token life surge, and I bet that disorient x3 blows life surge out of the water if two other meleers kick up and do the same immediately.

Then you have to ask yourself what is the benefit of life surge debuff on a disorientx3'd mob? Probbly nil.

[Airlea]

Considering no one said that, you're obviously just mad from the other topic.

As another lancer said, it's not worth the hastle and probably best to just pick one or the other for that situation. I believe it. It doesn't look like it would on paper, don't have to have the abilities to necessarily come to that conclusion. You just have to be a believer in the null hypothesis sometimes, not a believer in every little thing you do mattering just because it's you that does it.

"A debuff is a debuff" is a logical fallacy. Sometimes one more doesn't matter. That statement depends on an all or none mode of thinking, when that line of thinking is more detached from reality and thus irrelevant to the truth. You have to ask what your debuff is actually worth, because it is costing you something. Not just "is it there or not."

Sometimes a debuff is just meaningless wheel spinning.

Life surge may be a complete waste of stamina compared to lancers equipping disorient and contributing to keeping it stacked to x3 with that stamina. I kick up a disorient II at the start of fights while on lancer. Not as much hate as a token life surge, and I bet that disorient x3 blows life surge out of the water if two other meleers kick up and do the same immediately.

Then you have to ask yourself what is the benefit of life surge debuff on a disorientx3'd mob? Probbly nil.

tl;dr = As has been stated, life surge is rarely useful outside of solo play, though it still has it's situational use. I can only hope that this post will promulgate the peerless perfection with which I produce proclamations of my perfidious perspicacity.

[origamikitsune]

I see it as something far more useful in solo/duo situations, especially if you're tanking for a squishy. I'll try it out on Bardi tomorrow. Fighting him and spamming TV puts Stamina at a premium, so its seems to me to be the perfect test.