If it is not broken, DO NO FIX IT!

[Ablongman]

Removing choice completely isn't for sure the right solution to the fact that there are some choices better than others.

As long as there is a sizable variety of viable and good choices then the fact that some choices are better than others is a complete non-issue.

I actually agree with you, but I do think there's a threshold where choice for the sake of choice gets academic. For instance, what's the use of a full-on support role when you can adequately spec support/DPS or support/heal and contribute more overall? At that point, full-on support is a choice, but not a viable one. Which begs the question: is it truly worth having?

I am for keeping the system in spirit, and instead finding ways through gameplay to make every choice viable in some way. I don't think physical/rank level is what's causing the issue.

[Krausus]

Well the hard cap for VIT and MND is 174 at Rank 50, tell me do you have stats anywhere near that? Like I said at lower ranks it is fine, you hit cap easily, now try and hit cap at Rank 50.

Well at rank 45 I have 166 STR yes I mistakenly went over cap, so I dont see why one would not be abel to get stats to 174 Just not a lot of them, so that means you have to make a choice, do you want to hit harder, miss less, have more health, more mana. This allows for more diverse builds.

[Heartfire]

I think there should be a difference between customizing your character, and having a defined role.

As it stands, all of the classes feel the same. Cross classing abilities is almost useless, except for a few that you can easily get before rank 20.

So after getting all the classes you want, it's easy to just pick one and stick with it.

Everyone calls it "customization" but really it turns into "all of the best abilities." Where is the pick and choose? I like having to pick one ability over another. Or one (defined)class over another. "Custom" implies making choices: giving up one trait for another. That isn't what we have in XIV. All of the DoW, save archer, play exactly the same way. So I don't know that you really can call it "customized" when there isn't anything to customize with.

Once the classes have defined roles, unique abilities (that can only be used in their class). That's when people will have to make tough choices about the character they want to play. As it stands now, it's a collection game. Who can get the most abilities to throw into a hodgepodge character. There is no form, or definition to our characters. At the end of the day, we're all just spamming the 1 key.

[Abriael]

Well at rank 45 I have 166 STR yes I mistakenly went over cap, so I dont see why one would not be abel to get stats to 174 Just not a lot of them, so that means you have to make a choice, do you want to hit harder, miss less, have more health, more mana. This allows for more diverse builds.

For balancing reasons. The more wide you allow people to swing the stats, the more it's hard to balance the effect of such stats. That's why basically every MMORPG that allows stats allocation also has hard or soft caps.

The real problem is not that there are caps, but that such caps are not visible. They should be clearly indicated, in order to avoid players erroneously wasting points.

[Ablongman]

Well You can't main heal or Dot effectively on any classes but DoM. I think the idea is that you are supposed to be able to be versatile. Ok my grind party lost the Gladiator so now I'm going to tank as my Pugilist instead of DD. I change my actions to what I need for Tanking and on we go. This is better than sitting around waiting for the Gladiator we just invited to run from the node. Or if we couldn't find another Gladiator we could just continue on without them.

Maybe, but there's such a thing as too much of a good thing. Sure, it's convenient for anyone to be able to change and do anything on the fly, but that will create the passive expectation in the community that everyone should be as flexible as you, or automatically become less valuable. So in your scenario, an inverted version of what I proposed still occurs. Now flexibility is the norm, and there is no choice but to be a jack-of-all-trades or get sat out of parties for someone who is.

There's no escaping this, really. There is no such thing as an absolutely free-form system, because even with equal balance and absolute versatility, some decisions are more right than others (in this case, choosing versatility over specialization).

[Xzen]

I think there should be a difference between customizing your character, and having a defined role.

As it stands, all of the classes feel the same. Cross classing abilities is almost useless, except for a few that you can easily get before rank 20.

So after getting all the classes you want, it's easy to just pick one and stick with it.

Everyone calls it "customization" but really it turns into "all of the best abilities." Where is the pick and choose? I like having to pick one ability over another. Or one (defined)class over another. "Custom" implies making choices: giving up one trait for another. That isn't what we have in XIV. All of the DoW, save archer, play exactly the same way. So I don't know that you really can call it "customized" when there isn't anything to customize with.

Once the classes have defined roles, unique abilities (that can only be used in their class). That's when people will have to make tough choices about the character they want to play. As it stands now, it's a collection game. Who can get the most abilities to throw into a hodgepodge character. There is no form, or definition to our characters. At the end of the day, we're all just spamming the 1 key.

Sorry but I tend to swap out many of my abilities and traits depending on if I'm tanking or DPS on my PUG as do the MRD I know.

[MANTASTIC]

Then the problem isn't the system in itself, isn't it? It's that the caps are badly balanced, and should be rebalanced (and replaced with soft caps, by the way, hard caps are always worse than soft caps), AND be made visible, of course.

Systems that don't work perfectly don't need to be necessarily scrapped. They can be tweaked and rebalanced.



I'll have you know that the "I'm right because I'm in the (perceived) majority" is a rather flawed and faulty argument.

Oh, since we're at it, people that bought the game and don't play anymore, do so for a very wide variety of reasons. Assuming that they don't play anymore because they don't like what YOU don't like is another flawed argument based on nothing.

They may not like the lack of content, of polish, the UI, the lag, they may simply like other games more, have to work and a moltitude of other reasons.

oh, you.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_UGqFniDBUB...-TrollFace.png

[dragonslaya]

For balancing reasons. The more wide you allow people to swing the stats, the more it's hard to balance the effect of such stats. That's why basically every MMORPG that allows stats allocation also has hard or soft caps.

The real problem is not that there are caps, but that such caps are not visible. They should be clearly indicated, in order to avoid players erroneously wasting points.

there is no caps if you read my post you know the stat points do nothing what so ever

[Xzen]

Maybe, but there's such a thing as too much of a good thing. Sure, it's convenient for anyone to be able to change and do anything on the fly, but that will create the passive expectation in the community that everyone should be as flexible as you, or automatically become less valuable. So in your scenario, an inverted version of what I proposed still occurs. Now flexibility is the norm, and there is no choice but to be a jack-of-all-trades or get sat out of parties for someone who is.

There's no escaping this, really. There is no such thing as an absolutely free-form system, because even with equal balance and absolute versatility, some decisions are more right than others (in this case, choosing versatility over specialization).

I don't think anyone expects people to have 3 or more classes to rank 50 or be that flexible.

[Abriael]

I think there should be a difference between customizing your character, and having a defined role.

As it stands, all of the classes feel the same. Cross classing abilities is almost useless, except for a few that you can easily get before rank 20.

So after getting all the classes you want, it's easy to just pick one and stick with it.

Everyone calls it "customization" but really it turns into "all of the best abilities." Where is the pick and choose? I like having to pick one ability over another. Or one (defined)class over another. "Custom" implies making choices: giving up one trait for another. That isn't what we have in XIV. All of the DoW, save archer, play exactly the same way. So I don't know that you really can call it "customized" when there isn't anything to customize with.

Once the classes have defined roles, unique abilities (that can only be used in their class). That's when people will have to make tough choices about the character they want to play. As it stands now, it's a collection game. Who can get the most abilities to throw into a hodgepodge character. There is no form, or definition to our characters. At the end of the day, we're all just spamming the 1 key.

Actually the more you raise in levels, the more you have to make a choice on what abilities to use. At the moment I deficinetly can't fit all the abilities I would like to use due to the action points limitation.

Also, as already said a thousand times, the current classes "feel" the same not because a ranger with some THM abilities is the same as a THM, but because there's no challenging content.

That ranger with THM abilities isn't challenged to the limit of it's skills, so his healing, despite being very limited by his mana, by the lack of class affinity, and by the fact that he cannot AOE heal, is still sufficent to be viable.

The introduction of actually challenging monsters and enemies would challenge the abilities to their limit, making the lack of affinity (lower heals), the low mana and the lack of AOE heals much more apparent, relegating the ranger's THM abilities to a support/solo role, while an actual THM would have to take up the role of the healer.

It's all a matter of balancing, not really a matter related to the basics of the system. We're pitched against total pushovers. Can't be surprised if we can pull every role without breaking a sweat.

there is no caps if you read my post you know the stat points do nothing what so ever

And you'd be wrong. The caps are in place, and the points do make a difference, albeit limited.