If it is not broken, DO NO FIX IT!

[Xzen]

Please do the community a favor and stop posting such ridiculous garbage. A mage has never been able to wear heavy armor and chainmail, sweet lord, what games have you ever played where mages wore mail? I'm dying to know. Did you not play FFXI? From the get go, certain jobs could wear certain armor and were limited by job/class, and that included the melee jobs at level 1. A thief couldn't wear certain things a warrior could, let alone any of the mages.

There's no lack of class uniqueness? Even Yoshi-P has said he feels there isn't any uniqueness! How can any job be unique when you can use any traits from other jobs and essentially make them all the same? Obviously you are in the minority because SE is changing all of this to stop being an issue, the players have spoken in the polls, and we want things changed and are getting them changed. If the game was not broken in mostly every design aspect, Tanaka wouldn't have been replaced, and the game would be doing well now, and most importantly it wouldn't have gotten trashed by every single game review, including those in Japan. Obvious game flaws are obvious, why are you so keen on defending bad decisions?

Mages wore armor in Ultima Online if they felt like it. It just reduced their mana regeneration. In The Elder Scrolls games I can cast magic in full plate as a mage if I wanted. Darkfall you can be a mage in plate if you want. Hell in Dungeons and Dragons you could wear plate as a mage and take a penalty. So in essence a lot of RPGs since pin and paper have allowed mages to wear heavy armors with penalties.

I agree with lack of class uniqueness.

[Ablongman]

I can agree that out of the tens of glaring problems with this game, this one ranks pretty low on my wishlist. For instance, there's the glaring lack of social integration (the friends list is hidden behind like 4 clicks in a laggy menu and has no notifications), the abysmal chat interface that's too busy being flooded with combat messages to serve as an actual chatbox, the problematic targeting system, the lack any semblance of consistency with stat weights, the lack of visual combat cues that don't require you to stare at a chatbox to notice what a mob is casting... Oh, and the lack of actual content other than a story quest.

Yeah. I think class renaming/retooling to classic standards can wait.

[zzapp]

I'm less concerned about the armory system than I am the point allotment. Currently, to switch from a mage job to meele, and do the job justice, it could take literally days to switch your stats from mnd, pie, int, to str and dex, and then the same to switch back. This is very limiting. While I do like the idea of full customization, I would prefer point allotment be set specific to a job, which would facilitate the movement, back and forth between jobs. Aside from that, I can live with the design.

[Xzen]

I'm less concerned about the armory system than I am the point allotment. Currently, to switch from a mage job to meele, and do the job justice, it could take literally days to switch your stats from mnd, pie, int, to str and dex, and then the same to switch back. This is very limiting. While I do like the idea of full customization, I would prefer point allotment be set specific to a job, which would facilitate the movement, back and forth between jobs. Aside from that, I can live with the design.

I agree with this and according to the last poll should be done away with and we will get to assign points for each individual class we have leveled. Yay!

[RyneM]

Holy crap reading through this thread took a while.

Anywho, I personally think they're on to something with the physical level and class level independence. It's obviously not implemented to the fullest, but refinement will go a long way. I'd much rather have us earn much smaller amounts of bonus points inside each class that have a greater effect and stick permanently once allocated, but that's because I think the customization this game strives for is a bit off the mark.

I really don't like the idea of cross classing. In FFXI it was meh for the reasons mentioned earlier. I'd much rather see the customization inside the class based on bonus point allotment, skill setup, and equipment load out. I'm leveling Pugilist right now, and it'd be pretty friggin sweet if you could set up your character to gear towards a slower infighter or a quicker high risk/reward outfighter. I'd also like to see a hot swap option akin to FFXIII's paradigm system. Before someone goes nuts on my, I'm only talking about the ability to switch classes on the fly without penalty. Accompanying marcos, gear, and skills could even be assigned to each created class so it's a ridiculously quick swap. With the emphasis switching to 4 and 8 man parties this could really help strategize combat.

Anywho, my main point is I'd much rather see further discussion on the refinement of what we have before we talk scrapping. The ideas are there, the implementation is not.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

I agree many rpg have mage types in plate armor. Clarics in Aion can use heavy gear sets and are a dd white mage. Look at al the WoW classes and their gear. Two worlds 1 and 2 is another rpg that mage types can ware what they want. I had a guy in full plate with a staff casting spells.

In DCUO same thing everyone is hybird of a melee caster. My choice set up was a flying monk fight tank. And I liked it. They should make clases feel different but also allow to set abilities from other clases. If I wanted to be a pug who can cast fire and have a cure I should be able to.

As i said min/max is not always the right plan of action. And is not always efficient. Everyone working together as a team helps and every little bit helps. Point of mmo or video games in general is to have fun. It should never be about worring if you are "good" or not. I stop playing in parties in ffxi because of all the min/maxing. Gear is so hard to get in the game now and I was afraid of not being good enough and being kicked.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

to add back in the early days of ffxi I played rdm. I was in cape terrigan (sp) and a party guy ordered me to back line heal and debuff. He refused me about me wishing to melee. Then after an hour he announced me and other person was getting replaced. It was news to me and said other person. He got a bard to replace my rdm. Just so he had a dd buffer/healer.

Any system that allows the above to happen is a failed and un fun system.

[viion]

This should be SE's motto, they breaking things all the time

[AlexiaKidd]

If you think that you won't have elitists in this game because of how it is designed you are very wrong. You think it was bad in FFXI where you had to have 1 or 2 classes levelled half way for certain sub jobs to be accepted for your chosen job, that will be nothing compared to what it will be like in this. Imagine now you have to level a lot more classes to cap just to have those certain abilities to make your class above average and not be considered gimp.

[Selamis]

Gear was never really hard to get in XI though, outside of King drops. If anything it was just a matter of rare/ex gear being bad drop rate that took a while to get that put people off. Most people could get by just fine with AH bought gear as long as they knew how to gear properly though. I never had issues with melee rdms as long as they did what they were in the party to do as well, debuff/haste/cure, but if they didn't do that and just wanted to melee, then yea, I'd replace them too.