If it is not broken, DO NO FIX IT!

[EliseDee]

Because people like you whined about it over and over and they caved.
Of course an healthy mix between specialized and generic gear is not a bad thing.



The fact that SE may be considering to cave under the whines of the mass of people that didn't even get how the system works doesn't mean that the system doesn't work.



LOL! God forbid a developer introducing a new concept that's not part of the HISTORY of RPG!
Or better, of the absolutely artificial and innatural limitations that are part of the HISTORY of RPG.



If you are affected by insecurities, it's not really SE's role to fix that.



1: even with traits you'll never be as good as an healer as a specialized healer. This not to mention the fact that if you use a trait to heal, your gimp yourself in your main role, because you use a trait slot for another role.
2: The fact that you can heal YOURSELF (using up time that you should use performing your main role) doesn't mean you can main heal. Main healing without any AOE effects is laughable and ineffective.
3: Your mana pool is extremely limited. Even just spamming CURE 2 over a short period of time will make you run out of mana extremely easily.

You may somehow manage to main heal on unchallenging mobs, but as soon as a mob with challenging damage/abilities comes up, you simply die, or make your group die.



I know that perfectly, and that's exactly the balancing factor. It allows people CHOICE, but they have to tradeoff benefits.

You simply don't know how the mechanics you're complaining about work. Again, you're partly justified by the fact that SE didn't yet introduce any challenging content to make you learn the hard way. Still, it's quite funny to read.

Someone give this man a Nobel Peace Prize

[Abriael]

Cool thread you got here but you guys are in the minority.

Isn't it great that game development isn't a democracy?

I'm sure the developers aren't just throwing much of what the game has in the trash

They aren't doing anything. They are "considering" some changes. Considering several possibilities and doing it are two entirely different things.

The only thing I would consider "garbage" is the inability of some people to look at concepts with enough of an open mind to even experiment on them and see how they actually work.

[Onidemon]

Isn't it great that game development isn't a democracy?



They aren't doing anything. They are "considering" some changes. Considering several possibilities and doing it are two entirely different things.

The only thing I would consider "garbage" is the inability of some people to look at concepts with enough of an open mind to even experiment on them and see how they actually work.

Then why don't you help us have an open mind to these concepts by explaining how a badly designed system like this can be improved and make it appeal to the masses and not only to a minority who this it's ok the way it is....

[EliseDee]

I can understand to a degree how that may work, but when I have to wait over several hours to "respec" my points so I can play my mage class with any degree of potentcy, that's not exactly "versatile" to me. In a game that allows you to play all classes on a single character, it shouldn't be so cumbersome to switch between them. Yes, you can grind out marks to get the traits that swap your stats for classes, but honestly that's just a pointless system to begin with. Why not include that by default? Why make me grind so that I can actually use this system?



It's not that you "can't play every class at its best." It's that if you want to play or tinker with multiple classes you have to play all of them at its worst. The current system doesn't allow for much diversity in switching classes without arbitrarily punishing the user. Playing as a severely gimped conjurer because I decided to level lancer earlier that day does not make it "unique" or involve any specialization. And what exactly is wrong with wanting to play a job at its best? This was easily accomplished in FFXI by switching classes. It's not exactly playing every class on a single character if you're "pushed" into a single role amongst all of the classes and then penalized when you want to change that role.

Like I said many times in this post, making it so you can allot your points and it saving it for whatever class you allotted them on would easily fix this issue.

[Poipori]

Then why don't you help us have an open mind to these concepts by explaining how a badly designed system like this can be improved and make it appeal to the masses and not only to a minority who this it's ok the way it is....

I believe most people that wants this physical level to stay acknowledge the need to tweak and modify the system so that stats isn't totally useless and but also does not prevent people from playing diverse types of classes.

The example given by EliseDee is something worth considering.

[Xzen]

Then why don't you help us have an open mind to these concepts by explaining how a badly designed system like this can be improved and make it appeal to the masses and not only to a minority who this it's ok the way it is....

Again. You are the minority that dislikes the Armory system.

[EliseDee]

Personally I disliked how players handled ffxi's job system.

if you didn't /nin as a dd you failed
if you didn't sub /whm on early mage levels you failed
if you meleed as a red mage you failed

So infact ffxi was about as broken. Since most ppl didn't let other choose sub jobs they felt benifited them in how they played.

Aka cookie cutting is a broken tired system. And not something I want.

If I want to have a true red mage character, as in a magic casting fencer, I should beable to. And hope the new system they do make allows for this.

Red mage was my fav class when I first started. I was really good at this class when I meleed. I kept up needed buffs and debuffs. My skills were nearlly all capped nearly 100% of the time. Oh and red mages can ware medium metal armor. Not just cloth.

Anything but a cookie cutting system is what is needed. Not of ppl hated the cookie cutter mind set, they just went along with it just to get to cap.

I agree with you 100% on that factor this is why I like the idea behind this new system, I played FFXI from first day US release and before the game came out I was like MNK/NIN that is what I want to do and everyone said that it was dumb and I would not get in a pt cause I wasnt sub warrior, well lord behold 2 years later damn near every monk you saw was sub nin. So moral of the story is dont knock it before you try it and I had an awesome career as a MNK/NIN so as apposed to complaining about every little the thing to the point where developers have to hold your hand through the whole damn game (ala icons to tell you what aggs, REALLY!) you should just toughen up and run past those bad boys and see i you die.

[Zenaku]

i don't whined the game is broken why you think there changing it? because 80+% agree with it. Yes i play this game i'm level 44 and i played sense Beta1 i play time to time when i have time. Waiting for more update to do something beside kill pointless NM that give lame gear that you could just buy anyways.

@EliseDee i understand the system well enough i understand the point but it just does not work ppl still want to feel like they have there own type of class. It may not be broken in your eyes but it is to everyone else. SE is not going to leave it how it is to make you stay in the game when more then 70% of ppl don't agree with the idea of staying with the system we have now maybe you the crybaby because SE changing something you like at the end SE going to make the game how they like how much we cry about it this website is pretty much just to get feedback are they going to use any of it maybe not. SE never had the record of listening to there player base and in some way thank god.

Wait too the ps3 come out then see if you like the new system if you don't then quit and play other game because the system is going to change matter if you like it or not.


FFXI system was good sub job was awesome just because you had to go a sub job did not mean it was not bad you just had to because the mobs hit to hard so you had to go ninja that noting wrong with the players it just work the best.


Stop complaining about it there changing it and this topic wont change that.

[Krausus]

I can understand to a degree how that may work, but when I have to wait over several hours to "respec" my points so I can play my mage class with any degree of potentcy, that's not exactly "versatile" to me. In a game that allows you to play all classes on a single character, it shouldn't be so cumbersome to switch between them. Yes, you can grind out marks to get the traits that swap your stats for classes, but honestly that's just a pointless system to begin with. Why not include that by default? Why make me grind so that I can actually use this system?

But dont you think instead of scraping the system they should maybe fix it? Like removing the reallocation restrictions.

[Amsai]

I think FFXI was the best MMORPG to come out since original UO. But alot of the things that people had to say about it was it was too hard and it took too long to find a party and a tank ect...because every class was so class specific that if you weren't something and did something specific you were left out. I disagree whole heatedly but these were the complaints and that is what gave this game its birth. I understand where you are coming from with the class uniqueness ect ect. But that doesn't mean the whole core system needs to be removed. Just tweaked to work properly. Because I think the customization of the stats is needed its good and that having skills used from whatever class is good too. Just make the affinity less if its that big of a deal. Which it doesn't seem like that because my cure hasn't gotten any better in my 42 ranks of pug that's because Im not going to put anything into mind and its already working at half efficiency because its a sub class skill, so if these ALL IN ONES want to gimp themselves they will learn, but I think this system will promote a lot of really sweet builds end game and hats why I don't want to lose it.

I kinda agree with what you are saying, but I have a lot of issues with this game that I don't think tweaking will fix. If by some miracle they can, then thats great, but I just don't see how its possible. I do not hate stat allocation. I do not hate the armory system in general. I hate to say this but the player base is not smart enough. Without some clear direction and limitations, people will do whatever they want without a thought for what is best or for what works. You know what happens in most parties im in? All melees do damage and tank and heal themselves, and all mages do damage and heal themselves. That is the limit of strategy in the game. As Abiael has said, this is partly because of a lack of challenging content. However, its also because the player base lacks specified roles, and instead of trying to specialize they all just sort of end up doing everything. This will not change becuase of 3 mindsets:
1. They are Soloers.
2. They are part of the ignorant masses and will nilly willy do whatever fancies them.
3. They are worried that other people can't properly fill a role so they try to fill multiple roles to compensate for the ignorant masses.
These things do not foster confidence or dependence on our felllow players, which is what the game mechanics should be doing.

The direction of this games core elements makes me think it would have been better, if they just went with a completely classless system as opposed to an almost classless system. I definately would prefer the classic FF jobs and specified roles, but if they want the system to be more open they need to just go ahead and finish the thought and make it classless. At least then the system would make sense.