If it is not broken, DO NO FIX IT!

[Sephr]

The armory system is fine, but they need to stop it robbing the individuality of classes. This can be done without tampering with that though.

Physical level is not fine. Some people seem to like god-moding on low level classes after getting a high rank (doesnt have to be 50, there are skill caps) but it just doesnt feel right to me. Furthermore, it's stupid that all stats are allocated from one base-pool as it kills customisation on an individual class level in terms of stat points.

The reward for levelling up a multitude of classes should be that you get additional skills and, well, classes. Not that you should have some inherited bonus to lord over newer players and make yourself feel special.

Finally, the current system is the reason why stats can't apply that much effect to characters, because if they did people would HAVE to stick to DoW or DoM at higher levels and crafting classes would rarely get stat allocation at all. Remind me again how that is enhancing customisation?

In addition, YOU are also not a game designer and therefore seem to struggle to look at the bigger picture, rather than just what benefits yourself.

Finally, suggesting that removing physical level will turn this game into a wow-clone is naive at best, and shows how little you know about the MMO genre as a whole. In fact, I fail to see how it's comparable to WoW at all in that respect, the fact you only use one character defines this game as entirely seperate experience in terms of progression.

EDIT: I've just realised, when you say the 'armory' system you're not ACTUALLY talking about the armory system (Skill assignment to different classes) as defined by the game, you're talking about wearing WATEVA PRETIS you find on any character at any time. This isn't the armory system, I'd recommend looking it up.
Besides that, no. The current optimal rank system for gear is really stupid and is totally killing people's ambition to level up because they can wear whatever they like whenever. There are reasons other games don't allow it, and yes, Kurikokaze was right these are the reasons the old team got scrapped.

So in actuality I disagree with you on both points raised.

[Abriael]

If those things you mentioned weren't broken we wouldn't be here cause Tanaka would still be in charge.

They need a voting system just so I can rate this thread down.

No. What's killing the game is people that think that since a lot of things are underdeveloped and need work, every single concept behind the game is "broken".

Physical levels are plenty fine as they are. They have absolutely NO adverse effect on gameplay and they allow for a degree of linear progression while keeping customizability and variety. People that want them out simply can't come to accept that a diverse mechanic can be as effective as familiar ones.

[Zenaku]

All you said is the reason why the game is broken you do have to fix it because it lame. Allowing a mage use mail is very dumb.Hybrid system in paper it sound awesome then you play the game and you see. Oh look everyone can use the same spell wow that make my job easy i don't have to heal because 75% of DD can cure themself pretty well i only have to do it onces in a blue moon.

What the system they have not you lack class unique
Physical levels: I'm stuck to one class for hours too i reset
You lack a main role in a party seeing how all the DOW can tank beside ranger lol


I think what SE is coming up now is awesome and i hope they make it right this time around.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

They are not changing the core of the game because its broken. No one understands it. I barely understand it myself. Since the min/maxing players tend to take over mmo. No one would really use the current system as it was meant to. IE create your own class.

The way gear is set up isn't bad, but was poorly done. Its like they took this Idea from Mabinogi has they have a similar system. It was a you are what you ware. If you want to be a mage you wore a robe, and bought a wand and skills up your magic skills. Wanted to be an archer? you would get light armor and a bow or xbow. The only way this system works is not have classes at all just a character level. But people would complain.

What they could do possible is do what Aion and DCUO did. You learn various styles or some how morphed gear to looks like other gear. Like yiu could say earned a plate armored style you go and select that style and no matter what you ware, you will have that plate style on.

[EliseDee]

The armory system is fine, but they need to stop it robbing the individuality of classes. This can be done without tampering with that though.

Physical level is not fine. Some people seem to like god-moding on low level classes after getting a high rank (doesnt have to be 50, there are skill caps) but it just doesnt feel right to me. Furthermore, it's stupid that all stats are allocated from one base-pool as it kills customisation on an individual class level in terms of stat points.

The reward for levelling up a multitude of classes should be that you get additional skills and, well, classes. Not that you should have some inherited bonus to lord over newer players and make yourself feel special.

Finally, the current system is the reason why stats can't apply that much effect to characters, because if they did people would HAVE to stick to DoW or DoM at higher levels and crafting classes would rarely get stat allocation at all. Remind me again how that is enhancing customisation?

In addition, YOU are also not a game designer and therefore seem to struggle to look at the bigger picture, rather than just what benefits yourself.

Finally, suggesting that removing physical level will turn this game into a wow-clone is naive at best, and shows how little you know about the MMO genre as a whole. In fact, I fail to see how it's comparable to WoW at all in that respect, the fact you only use one character defines this game as entirely seperate experience in terms of progression.

A. Im not sure if you read my response to the gentleman on page 1. So lemme place this with nice bullets so you understand me a little better.

B. There is a hard cap based on rank for your stats, so regardless of how many points you put in one stat thinking its going to help its not going to THAT MUCH unless you pay attention to your caps.

C. The reason it offers customization is because you decide how you build your class. There was a vision behind this and I can see it in how the system works. Its so that at END GAME you would have the same class as someone else but work differently depending on the skills you have and how you allot your points.

D. I'm not saying its perfect but it does not need to be removed. By allowing you to set up your points for each class individually it would fix the problem and do so very easily. Thanks for the bump and insults in this our beautiful discussion.

E. and the reason I said it was making it more like wow is because every MMORPG after has strives for nothing BUT and square has done a good job of keeping Innovation in the mix and people are just crying cause its not what they are used to, I for one say keep the Physical Level and Point allotment.

[Abriael]

All you said is the reason why the game is broken you do have to fix it because it lame. Allowing a mage use mail is very dumb.Hybrid system in paper it sound awesome then you play the game and you see. Oh look everyone can use the same spell wow that make my job easy i don't have to heal because 75% of DD can cure themself pretty well i only have to do it onces in a blue moon.

What the system they have not you lack class unique
Physical levels: I'm stuck to one class for hours too i reset
You lack a main role in a party seeing how all the DOW can tank beside ranger lol


I think what SE is coming up now is awesome and i hope they make it right this time around.

No.
1: allowing a mage to use a mail with diminished benefit not only isn't dumb, it's logical. Armor doesn't normally come with "anti class" systems installed.
2: There's no lack of class uniqueness in the game, due to several skill restrictions and the class affinity system. What the game lacks is any kind of challenge that could test abilities to the limit.
Mages can tank and DD can heal simply because mobs don't hit hard enough. Add challenging content, and people will snap back to their roles, or die trying to be badass (and stupid), while abilities from other roles will be relegated to support/solo roles. It's that simple.

[Lobo]

No. What's killing the game is people that think that since a lot of things are underdeveloped and need work, every single concept behind the game is "broken".

That's because they're all asinine concepts. If any of them worked the game wouldn't be in such a ridiculously horrendous and poorly rated condition. I have yet to think of a single thing from the retail launch that was anything more than a poorly handed, half thought, hashed out idea. The game needs serious work and thank god Yoshida and his team are putting their teeth into the task. This vocal minority of people resistant to every single change is irritating. If you want to pay $50-$70 for a crummy game I can point to you several Barbie titles.

Physical levels are plenty fine as they are. They have absolutely NO adverse effect on gameplay and they allow for a degree of linear progression while keeping customizability and variety. People that want them out simply can't come to accept that a diverse mechanic can be as effective as familiar ones.

Physical levels are plenty fine as they are. They have absolutely NO adverse effect on gameplay and they allow for a degree of linear progression while keeping customizability and variety. People that want them out simply can't come to accept that a diverse mechanic can be as effective as familiar ones.

No, they aren't. They restrict player growth with arbitrary limitations and cool-downs on stat allotment. The level itself serves no real purpose other than e-peen. I am all in favor of removing the entire thing and adding in a real class system. The idea to mix and match abilities at will is a nifty idea in theory but clearly does not work in FFXIV because it leaves every single class feeling naked. I have no reason to play a conjurer over a lancer, other than to use a different type of weapon. This supreme class homogenization is what leaves the game feeling just so bland and uninteresting.

[Sephr]

B. You're correct, there is a cap. However, when you can level 1 or 2 classes to 10 fighting mobs your own level (ish) then go back to a third and kill things 5+ levels higher with utter ease, it's not working correctly. If it isn't making much of a difference, why is it a problem to remove it anyway?

C. Can be applied to a system where you apply stat points based on class, I dont see why physical level makes this a more unique system. It simply limits your class choices to a couple of classes, and furthermore why do we want all physical classes to aim for the same stats to begin with? With class distinctions between point allotment, theres far more choice between what to put on individual pieces of equipment for each class to be different.

D. I don't believe I insulted anyone, but you're welcome for the bump as debates are never bad when they're constructive. Furthermore I'll add, if you can allot points for each class individually as you've conceded is a good idea anyway, what's the point in PL anymore?

E. No one's saying point allotment itself should go or be moved to a more classic MMO-like system. SE's done enough so far to make this game seperate from other games, however I don't think including clunky and inconvenient systems that a considerable amount of the remaining and dwindling player base don't actually like is necessarily a good thing.

[EliseDee]

All you said is the reason why the game is broken you do have to fix it because it lame. Allowing a mage use mail is very dumb.Hybrid system in paper it sound awesome then you play the game and you see. Oh look everyone can use the same spell wow that make my job easy i don't have to heal because 75% of DD can cure themself pretty well i only have to do it onces in a blue moon.

What the system they have not you lack class unique
Physical levels: I'm stuck to one class for hours too i reset
You lack a main role in a party seeing how all the DOW can tank beside ranger lol


I think what SE is coming up now is awesome and i hope they make it right this time around.

Well lets see here. A. There is a large difference between a cure from me and a cure from a con. Seeing they are STATISTICALLY BUILT FOR IT! My stats not a drop in mnd. It was an example dont get all worked up. AND even if I did have the same amount of points in mnd as a CON I still wouldnt get as much out of it for the pure simple fact that its a sub class ability not being used with the main. Now it was because of the constant complaint from people that FFXI was TOO HARD, and that it took forever to party and that it took ages to find a tank that they give people the option of playing whatever class however the see fit. So now your like this sucks cause anyone can be a tank...when has that ever been an issue of having too many tanks? That the conjurer has a little easier cause melee can heal themselves. GOD FORBID. And wow if I'm sure you've never heard of a cleric wearing chain mail and using a mace why the big whop in your statement was about the plate belt. LOL Guess what, NPCS in the game that are magic users...seen some with plate belts. But that's besides the point, the system is good, customization is the biggest point they were trying to push and I think that's the way to go cause regardless of how you cut it without it its just gonna be a whole bunch of people wearing the same gear with the same stats doing the same crap. Thanks for the bump and your participation.

[Amsai]

Yes but change for the sake of change is not a good thing. Also I couldn't disagree with the OP more. I'd also like to flip it around. FFXI did a lot, I mean A LOT of things right: If it aint broke, don't fix it! See what I did there? Class uniqueness, party roles and dynamics, limitations to armor types and rank requirements, and specialized skills that make a class excell at something more so than any other class, that are NOT able to be cross-classed. So I wouldnt eliminate the ability to do so cross class skills, because it is better than FFXIs sub job system. However I would want it to be mostly basic skills. FFXIV allows far too much freedom, which while it does offer customization, it doesnt do it in a healthy way. Instead of creating unique flavor, everything feels the same, and everyone is trying to fill all roles at once (i.e. All-In-Ones).