If it is not broken, DO NO FIX IT!

[Selamis]

No.
1: allowing a mage to use a mail with diminished benefit not only isn't dumb, it's logical. Armor doesn't normally come with "anti class" systems installed.
2: There's no lack of class uniqueness in the game, due to several skill restrictions and the class affinity system. What the game lacks is any kind of challenge that could test abilities to the limit.
Mages can tank and DD can heal simply because mobs don't hit hard enough. Add challenging content, and people will snap back to their roles, or die trying to be badass (and stupid), while abilities from other roles will be relegated to support/solo roles. It's that simple.

Please do the community a favor and stop posting such ridiculous garbage. A mage has never been able to wear heavy armor and chainmail, sweet lord, what games have you ever played where mages wore mail? I'm dying to know. Did you not play FFXI? From the get go, certain jobs could wear certain armor and were limited by job/class, and that included the melee jobs at level 1. A thief couldn't wear certain things a warrior could, let alone any of the mages.

There's no lack of class uniqueness? Even Yoshi-P has said he feels there isn't any uniqueness! How can any job be unique when you can use any traits from other jobs and essentially make them all the same? Obviously you are in the minority because SE is changing all of this to stop being an issue, the players have spoken in the polls, and we want things changed and are getting them changed. If the game was not broken in mostly every design aspect, Tanaka wouldn't have been replaced, and the game would be doing well now, and most importantly it wouldn't have gotten trashed by every single game review, including those in Japan. Obvious game flaws are obvious, why are you so keen on defending bad decisions?

LOL! God forbid a developer introducing a new concept that's not part of the HISTORY of RPG!
Or better, of the absolutely artificial and innatural limitations that are part of the HISTORY of RPG.

Look where that got them with 14 when they tried to reinvent the genre, they even said they tried to make the game different on purpose, and it clearly suffered because of that.

[Xzen]

Please do the community a favor and stop posting such ridiculous garbage. A mage has never been able to wear heavy armor and chainmail, sweet lord, what games have you ever played where mages wore mail? I'm dying to know. Did you not play FFXI? From the get go, certain jobs could wear certain armor and were limited by job/class, and that included the melee jobs at level 1. A thief couldn't wear certain things a warrior could, let alone any of the mages.

There's no lack of class uniqueness? Even Yoshi-P has said he feels there isn't any uniqueness! How can any job be unique when you can use any traits from other jobs and essentially make them all the same? Obviously you are in the minority because SE is changing all of this to stop being an issue, the players have spoken in the polls, and we want things changed and are getting them changed. If the game was not broken in mostly every design aspect, Tanaka wouldn't have been replaced, and the game would be doing well now, and most importantly it wouldn't have gotten trashed by every single game review, including those in Japan. Obvious game flaws are obvious, why are you so keen on defending bad decisions?

Mages wore armor in Ultima Online if they felt like it. It just reduced their mana regeneration. In The Elder Scrolls games I can cast magic in full plate as a mage if I wanted. Darkfall you can be a mage in plate if you want. Hell in Dungeons and Dragons you could wear plate as a mage and take a penalty. So in essence a lot of RPGs since pin and paper have allowed mages to wear heavy armors with penalties.

I agree with lack of class uniqueness.

[Abriael]

Please do the community a favor and stop posting such ridiculous garbage.

Please do the community a favor, and respect people's opinion. Otherwise, you have no place in a discussion forum.

A mage has never been able to wear heavy armor and chainmail, sweet lord, what games have you ever played where mages wore mail? I'm dying to know. Did you not play FFXI? From the get go, certain jobs could wear certain armor and were limited by job/class, and that included the melee jobs at level

LOL. You talk like mages exist in reality and they have never been able to wear heavy armor.
1: armor realistically can be worn by anyone. Some people are more trained to wear it, and will receive a certain benefits, others are less, and will receive less benefits. That's what simple logic dictates. It's both realistic and convenient gameplay wise, not to mention the fact that it allows more freedom in looks.
2: There are plenty games, both videogames and pen/paper RPGs, in which there are several caster-types that can wear heavy armor. Your perspective of the genre is, apparently, quite limited by the (probably few) games you played.
3: this is not Final Fantasy XI. There are other games around than Final Fantasy XI.

There's no lack of class uniqueness? Even Yoshi-P has said he feels there isn't any uniqueness!

The fact that he humors the masses doesn't mean that he really thinks that.

How can any job be unique when you can use any traits from other jobs and essentially make them all the same?

Because they're not the same. The class affinity system makes sure that you'll never be as effective as the original class when using a skill with another class. Also, there are further limitations in place, for instance non-caster classes can't cast AOE. Finally, there are evident differences in HP, Mana, Defence, physical attack and such, that makes it so that for instance, a melee class cannot nearly heal as effectively as a caster, simply because he'll run out of mana in 2 minutes flat, and he won't have significant ways to get it back in time.
If you don't know the ins and outs of the system, don't blame it on the system.

Obviously you are in the minority

Luckily Games development is not a democracy.

Look where that got them with 14 when they tried to reinvent the genre, they even said they tried to make the game different on purpose, and it clearly suffered because of that.

What got them where they are has been releasing an unfinished, content-deprieved, unchallenging game. The basic systems, though, are solid, and people would enjoy (and understand) them much more if they were finished and polished, if there was sizable content, and if that such content was challenging enough to test them to the limit.

Classes appear all the same to people lacking insight, because there's NO mobs, out there, that challenges them to their limit, forcing people to stay in the role they are most EFFECTIVE at.

I challenge anyone reading this thread to name ONE group-oriented mob that they find anywhere challenging or difficult to beat in this game.

In a system that features any degree of versatility, there's no need to specialize unless challenge is present. Once challenge is present, people will have to stick to the role they can perform better in order to survive. And be viable.

[Aion]

Please do the community a favor and stop posting such ridiculous garbage. A mage has never been able to wear heavy armor and chainmail, sweet lord, what games have you ever played where mages wore mail? I'm dying to know. Did you not play FFXI? From the get go, certain jobs could wear certain armor and were limited by job/class, and that included the melee jobs at level 1. A thief couldn't wear certain things a warrior could, let alone any of the mages.

There's no lack of class uniqueness? Even Yoshi-P has said he feels there isn't any uniqueness! How can any job be unique when you can use any traits from other jobs and essentially make them all the same? Obviously you are in the minority because SE is changing all of this to stop being an issue, the players have spoken in the polls, and we want things changed and are getting them changed. If the game was not broken in mostly every design aspect, Tanaka wouldn't have been replaced, and the game would be doing well now, and most importantly it wouldn't have gotten trashed by every single game review, including those in Japan. Obvious game flaws are obvious, why are you so keen on defending bad decisions?



Look where that got them with 14 when they tried to reinvent the genre, they even said they tried to make the game different on purpose, and it clearly suffered because of that.

Perfect World Online, any job can wear any armor as long its stat sufficient, so we can find PRIEST who naturally use robes,using Light Armor(which is intended to wear by dex-based job such as ARCHER)

[Zenaku]

Perfect World Online, any job can wear any armor as long its stat sufficient, so we can find PRIEST who naturally use robes,using Light Armor(which is intended to wear by dex-based job such as ARCHER)

That a F2P mmo big % of MMO follow the same rule mage can't wear mail only cloth. It's just a rule set in the RPG world every game follow this rule . I just don't look right if a Mage wearing mail when cloth is better only a PLD should wear mail because there more of a wear then anything. Look at red mage they only wear leather and cloth but then again they can somewhat fight also but still not allow to wear mail because it's stilll more about magic then fighting so they need cloth/leather.

I never understood it but it just how things are and should just go on being like it because in some way it make a lot of sense.

[EliseDee]

All you said is the reason why the game is broken you do have to fix it because it lame. Allowing a mage use mail is very dumb.Hybrid system in paper it sound awesome then you play the game and you see. Oh look everyone can use the same spell wow that make my job easy i don't have to heal because 75% of DD can cure themself pretty well i only have to do it onces in a blue moon.

What the system they have not you lack class unique
Physical levels: I'm stuck to one class for hours too i reset
You lack a main role in a party seeing how all the DOW can tank beside ranger lol


I think what SE is coming up now is awesome and i hope they make it right this time around.

Well lets see here. A. There is a large difference between a cure from me and a cure from a con. Seeing they are STATISTICALLY BUILT FOR IT! My stats not a drop in mnd. It was an example dont get all worked up. AND even if I did have the same amount of points in mnd as a CON I still wouldnt get as much out of it for the pure simple fact that its a sub class ability not being used with the main. Now it was because of the constant complaint from people that FFXI was TOO HARD, and that it took forever to party and that it took ages to find a tank that they give people the option of playing whatever class however the see fit. So now your like this sucks cause anyone can be a tank...when has that ever been an issue of having too many tanks? That the conjurer has a little easier cause melee can heal themselves. GOD FORBID. And wow if I'm sure you've never heard of a cleric wearing chain mail and using a mace why the big whop in your statement was about the plate belt. LOL Guess what, NPCS in the game that are magic users...seen some with plate belts. But that's besides the point, the system is good, customization is the biggest point they were trying to push and I think that's the way to go cause regardless of how you cut it without it its just gonna be a whole bunch of people wearing the same gear with the same stats doing the same crap. Thanks for the bump and your participation.

[Krausus]

All you said is the reason why the game is broken you do have to fix it because it lame. Allowing a mage use mail is very dumb.Hybrid system in paper it sound awesome then you play the game and you see. Oh look everyone can use the same spell wow that make my job easy i don't have to heal because 75% of DD can cure themself pretty well i only have to do it onces in a blue moon.

What the system they have not you lack class unique
Physical levels: I'm stuck to one class for hours too i reset
You lack a main role in a party seeing how all the DOW can tank beside ranger lol


I think what SE is coming up now is awesome and i hope they make it right this time around.

Do you really play this game, I have to wonder because obviously you have not done any group play.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

They are not changing the core of the game because its broken. No one understands it. I barely understand it myself. Since the min/maxing players tend to take over mmo. No one would really use the current system as it was meant to. IE create your own class.

The way gear is set up isn't bad, but was poorly done. Its like they took this Idea from Mabinogi has they have a similar system. It was a you are what you ware. If you want to be a mage you wore a robe, and bought a wand and skills up your magic skills. Wanted to be an archer? you would get light armor and a bow or xbow. The only way this system works is not have classes at all just a character level. But people would complain.

What they could do possible is do what Aion and DCUO did. You learn various styles or some how morphed gear to looks like other gear. Like yiu could say earned a plate armored style you go and select that style and no matter what you ware, you will have that plate style on.

[Sephr]

B. You're correct, there is a cap. However, when you can level 1 or 2 classes to 10 fighting mobs your own level (ish) then go back to a third and kill things 5+ levels higher with utter ease, it's not working correctly. If it isn't making much of a difference, why is it a problem to remove it anyway?

C. Can be applied to a system where you apply stat points based on class, I dont see why physical level makes this a more unique system. It simply limits your class choices to a couple of classes, and furthermore why do we want all physical classes to aim for the same stats to begin with? With class distinctions between point allotment, theres far more choice between what to put on individual pieces of equipment for each class to be different.

D. I don't believe I insulted anyone, but you're welcome for the bump as debates are never bad when they're constructive. Furthermore I'll add, if you can allot points for each class individually as you've conceded is a good idea anyway, what's the point in PL anymore?

E. No one's saying point allotment itself should go or be moved to a more classic MMO-like system. SE's done enough so far to make this game seperate from other games, however I don't think including clunky and inconvenient systems that a considerable amount of the remaining and dwindling player base don't actually like is necessarily a good thing.

[EliseDee]

B. You're correct, there is a cap. However, when you can level 1 or 2 classes to 10 fighting mobs your own level (ish) then go back to a third and kill things 5+ levels higher with utter ease, it's not working correctly. If it isn't making much of a difference, why is it a problem to remove it anyway?

C. Can be applied to a system where you apply stat points based on class, I don't see why physical level makes this a more unique system. It simply limits your class choices to a couple of classes, and furthermore why do we want all physical classes to aim for the same stats to begin with? With class distinctions between point allotment, there's far more choice between what to put on individual pieces of equipment for each class to be different.

D. I don't believe I insulted anyone, but you're welcome for the bump as debates are never bad when they're constructive. Furthermore I'll add, if you can allot points for each class individually as you've conceded is a good idea anyway, what's the point in PL anymore?

E. No one's saying point allotment itself should go or be moved to a more classic MMO-like system. SE's done enough so far to make this game seperate from other games, however I don't think including clunky and inconvenient systems that a considerable amount of the remaining and dwindling player base don't actually like is necessarily a good thing.

The reason for keeping the physical level is that it gives you the base rate amount of points you have to use for your classes. And for example...If I was a boxer for 10 years of my life and I can give and take a hit pretty well and then I became a doctor, It wouldn't mean I would be any less of a fighter, it would diminish because of lack of everyday use yes, but it doesn't mean I all the sudden become void of the knowledge I had prior or strengths I had prior. This is what physical level is. You are level 50 regardless of what job you take on you have gone through the BS and are at your prime how you use that is up to you. I think it deserves tweaking not removing is all I'm saying. I like it.