If it is not broken, DO NO FIX IT!

[Vicious]

If I wanted to be a pug who can cast fire and have a cure I should be able to.

Why should you be able to?

Then after an hour he announced me and other person was getting replaced. It was news to me and said other person. He got a bard to replace my rdm. Just so he had a dd buffer/healer.

Picking a class should have its ups and downs, and unfortunately this time it was down.

This should be SE's motto, they breaking things all the time

oh jeez, hes here.

[dragonslaya]

to add back in the early days of ffxi I played rdm. I was in cape terrigan (sp) and a party guy ordered me to back line heal and debuff. He refused me about me wishing to melee. Then after an hour he announced me and other person was getting replaced. It was news to me and said other person. He got a bard to replace my rdm. Just so he had a dd buffer/healer.

Any system that allows the above to happen is a failed and un fun system.

Um no matter what game your playing that can happen, sorry to burst your bubble but if I wanted to tell u to heal atm in this game and stop dding or ill repalce you I could do the same thign its no different ur a healer and should focus on healing. No im not saying thats what id do idc personnely long as no one was dying but im basically saying your way of thinking is flawed cause no matter what game you play if somoen doesnt want you to melee as a mage and wants to replace you cause of that they can thats there choice and no game will ever stop that thats human judgement.

The current armor systems does suck, mainly because crafters have no reason to craft lower lvl gear cause everyone just sa=ays screw it and ill get lvl 48 gear for my lvl 12 mage so now crafters basically dont craft anythign lower lvl and we got torely on friends to get gear if we choose to play by the books and that being the lvl to wear the gear. If you want just to wear gear around town cause it loosk cool fine se should jsut allow it to be wore on any job. but put an 100% penalty on it if its not for your job u get 0 stats from it and its completely useless. That way if someone wants to look cool around town fine they can but when it comes down to playign your job right or playing parties right yes you should care abotu your stats etc, whats the point of having stats and everythign else if people arent gonna care.

The point system is basically 100% useless atm SE's stated it and many many tests peopel have done points it out to be almost completely useless for the most part. Having stat caps means nothing in thsi game I personnely tested stuff on my archer with like 100 str agaisnt others with 150+ str and they were using silver arorws while i used wrapped arrows lvl 1 and u kow what i ws doing 5-10 less dmg per arrow then them. You think thats a good system? you think custmizing your points to 150 str and think its bascially a moot point and having say different lvl arrows with different dmg yet its still compleltely useless cause in my eye having +50 more str and not sure the difference atm of wrapped arrows dmg vs silveer but lets say its 20 more dmg dont u think that should make it the person with better arrows and 150+ str should do better.
The problem there is if they did do that means anyoen who wants to play a mage job would basically suck 100% because they actually let the stat points do something, but because they dont let it do anything its useless. So basically yes atm the current state of point system is utter useless no matter what way you. And no I dont think its fair to make me lvl 2-3 different accounts to be able to play different jobs this isnt wow, se has built on so you can have one account and play any job you want, but they decide to take a different route and failed. Im not sayin they maybe cant fix it mayeb they can but to me if the system is 100% usless ur either better off scrappign it and coming up better idea or you better damn well coem up with some amazing patches to fix it cause currently thsi game is going down the drain faster then any game i ever seen. every patch either makes it worse or better for peoepl to come back or quit atm. And se isnt here to please just 25% of there players otherwise they gonan lose lots of money so if it means scrapping the system 100% to pelase 75% of the current player base they will do it and again sorry to burst your bubble but if 75% of the users dont like system then its not whining in general that means the majority hates the game and majority is what will pay for the game not the 25%, i think se will make more off pleasing the 75% wether those 25% like it or not se is here to make money thats it and there not making shit right now.

[Sephr]

The armory system is fine, but they need to stop it robbing the individuality of classes. This can be done without tampering with that though.

Physical level is not fine. Some people seem to like god-moding on low level classes after getting a high rank (doesnt have to be 50, there are skill caps) but it just doesnt feel right to me. Furthermore, it's stupid that all stats are allocated from one base-pool as it kills customisation on an individual class level in terms of stat points.

The reward for levelling up a multitude of classes should be that you get additional skills and, well, classes. Not that you should have some inherited bonus to lord over newer players and make yourself feel special.

Finally, the current system is the reason why stats can't apply that much effect to characters, because if they did people would HAVE to stick to DoW or DoM at higher levels and crafting classes would rarely get stat allocation at all. Remind me again how that is enhancing customisation?

In addition, YOU are also not a game designer and therefore seem to struggle to look at the bigger picture, rather than just what benefits yourself.

Finally, suggesting that removing physical level will turn this game into a wow-clone is naive at best, and shows how little you know about the MMO genre as a whole. In fact, I fail to see how it's comparable to WoW at all in that respect, the fact you only use one character defines this game as entirely seperate experience in terms of progression.

EDIT: I've just realised, when you say the 'armory' system you're not ACTUALLY talking about the armory system (Skill assignment to different classes) as defined by the game, you're talking about wearing WATEVA PRETIS you find on any character at any time. This isn't the armory system, I'd recommend looking it up.
Besides that, no. The current optimal rank system for gear is really stupid and is totally killing people's ambition to level up because they can wear whatever they like whenever. There are reasons other games don't allow it, and yes, Kurikokaze was right these are the reasons the old team got scrapped.

So in actuality I disagree with you on both points raised.

[EliseDee]

The armory system is fine, but they need to stop it robbing the individuality of classes. This can be done without tampering with that though.

Physical level is not fine. Some people seem to like god-moding on low level classes after getting a high rank (doesnt have to be 50, there are skill caps) but it just doesnt feel right to me. Furthermore, it's stupid that all stats are allocated from one base-pool as it kills customisation on an individual class level in terms of stat points.

The reward for levelling up a multitude of classes should be that you get additional skills and, well, classes. Not that you should have some inherited bonus to lord over newer players and make yourself feel special.

Finally, the current system is the reason why stats can't apply that much effect to characters, because if they did people would HAVE to stick to DoW or DoM at higher levels and crafting classes would rarely get stat allocation at all. Remind me again how that is enhancing customisation?

In addition, YOU are also not a game designer and therefore seem to struggle to look at the bigger picture, rather than just what benefits yourself.

Finally, suggesting that removing physical level will turn this game into a wow-clone is naive at best, and shows how little you know about the MMO genre as a whole. In fact, I fail to see how it's comparable to WoW at all in that respect, the fact you only use one character defines this game as entirely seperate experience in terms of progression.

A. Im not sure if you read my response to the gentleman on page 1. So lemme place this with nice bullets so you understand me a little better.

B. There is a hard cap based on rank for your stats, so regardless of how many points you put in one stat thinking its going to help its not going to THAT MUCH unless you pay attention to your caps.

C. The reason it offers customization is because you decide how you build your class. There was a vision behind this and I can see it in how the system works. Its so that at END GAME you would have the same class as someone else but work differently depending on the skills you have and how you allot your points.

D. I'm not saying its perfect but it does not need to be removed. By allowing you to set up your points for each class individually it would fix the problem and do so very easily. Thanks for the bump and insults in this our beautiful discussion.

E. and the reason I said it was making it more like wow is because every MMORPG after has strives for nothing BUT and square has done a good job of keeping Innovation in the mix and people are just crying cause its not what they are used to, I for one say keep the Physical Level and Point allotment.

[Zenaku]

All you said is the reason why the game is broken you do have to fix it because it lame. Allowing a mage use mail is very dumb.Hybrid system in paper it sound awesome then you play the game and you see. Oh look everyone can use the same spell wow that make my job easy i don't have to heal because 75% of DD can cure themself pretty well i only have to do it onces in a blue moon.

What the system they have not you lack class unique
Physical levels: I'm stuck to one class for hours too i reset
You lack a main role in a party seeing how all the DOW can tank beside ranger lol


I think what SE is coming up now is awesome and i hope they make it right this time around.

[Abriael]

All you said is the reason why the game is broken you do have to fix it because it lame. Allowing a mage use mail is very dumb.Hybrid system in paper it sound awesome then you play the game and you see. Oh look everyone can use the same spell wow that make my job easy i don't have to heal because 75% of DD can cure themself pretty well i only have to do it onces in a blue moon.

What the system they have not you lack class unique
Physical levels: I'm stuck to one class for hours too i reset
You lack a main role in a party seeing how all the DOW can tank beside ranger lol


I think what SE is coming up now is awesome and i hope they make it right this time around.

No.
1: allowing a mage to use a mail with diminished benefit not only isn't dumb, it's logical. Armor doesn't normally come with "anti class" systems installed.
2: There's no lack of class uniqueness in the game, due to several skill restrictions and the class affinity system. What the game lacks is any kind of challenge that could test abilities to the limit.
Mages can tank and DD can heal simply because mobs don't hit hard enough. Add challenging content, and people will snap back to their roles, or die trying to be badass (and stupid), while abilities from other roles will be relegated to support/solo roles. It's that simple.

[Zenaku]

No.
1: allowing a mage to use a mail with diminished benefit not only isn't dumb, it's logical. Armor doesn't normally come with "anti class" systems installed.
2: There's no lack of class uniqueness in the game, due to several skill restrictions and the class affinity system. What the game lacks is any kind of challenge that could test abilities to the limit.
Mages can tank and DD can heal simply because mobs don't hit hard enough. Add challenging content, and people will snap back to their roles, or die trying to be badass (and stupid), while abilities from other roles will be relegated to support/solo roles. It's that simple.

If the game does not lack class uniqueness why is SE making it so there class only gear? and thinking of two ideas

A: Unlock a job within your class when you reach a set level
B: Tree type build but it wont be like other game said in a interview.

So by saying the game does not lack uniqueness but then again SE trying to fix that mean there is no real role in the game.In every game every RPG there is a type of "anti class" for Armor Allowing a mage to use Mail in the history of FF make them a PLD allowing them to tank and have some healing powers. Sure SE can come up with any new system they like but in history of all RPG and Online games , you never see a mage wearing Mail. Allowing everyone to wear everything and allowing everyone to do every JA,WS,Spell make other players who have diff class feel like there not really a class them selfs.



The system fails that why they changing everything if you was right and i was wrong SE would have left it how it was. At the start i said it was pretty good idea then you get around rank 44 and you see how dumb it become.

You do know that every gear in the game does not really help you do a role as a hybrid Due to the fact that it does not work for your class? so wearing mail wont help you at all you better off just using your cloth vs mail. So you want to do more healing spell? on a DD class but all the good cloth gear that give you INT does not work for your class so you better of just using what you have but then you lack power matter if you put all your point onto INT. it wont matter because your a DD you don't get as much as you do as a mage so at the end your a half ass mage so what the point of a hybrid system if you can't really fully get too other mage power at least 70% of a real mage. You really can't make a Red mage in the game because you lack a lot of customization because the system fails this is what most of you guys are not really seeing the game is broken in many ways.

[EliseDee]

If the game does not lack class uniqueness why is SE making it so there class only gear? and thinking of two ideas

A: Unlock a job within your class when you reach a set level
B: Tree type build but it wont be like other game said in a interview.

So by saying the game does not lack uniqueness but then again SE trying to fix that mean there is no real role in the game.In every game every RPG there is a type of "anti class" for Armor Allowing a mage to use Mail in the history of FF make them a PLD allowing them to tank and have some healing powers. Sure SE can come up with any new system they like but in history of all RPG and Online games , you never see a mage wearing Mail. Allowing everyone to wear everything and allowing everyone to do every JA,WS,Spell make other players who have diff class feel like there not really a class them selfs.



The system fails that why they changing everything if you was right and i was wrong SE would have left it how it was. At the start i said it was pretty good idea then you get around rank 44 and you see how dumb it become.

You do know that every gear in the game does not really help you do a role as a hybrid Due to the fact that it does not work for your class? so wearing mail wont help you at all you better off just using your cloth vs mail. So you want to do more healing spell? on a DD class but all the good cloth gear that give you INT does not work for your class so you better of just using what you have but then you lack power matter if you put all your point onto INT. it wont matter because your a DD you don't get as much as you do as a mage so at the end your a half ass mage so what the point of a hybrid system if you can't really fully get too other mage power at least 70% of a real mage. You really can't make a Red mage in the game because you lack a lot of customization because the system fails this is what most of you guys are not really seeing the game is broken in many ways.

THe reasont hat their doing things the way they are is completely based on the user base and what they are moaning about and I like that dont get me wrong, I think its good, but I think its severly lame to bend over and take it cause people are crying about things that arent wrong its just a lets see how much we can cry about until this game is just another clone of every other MMORPG and stop playing it when the next clone comes out. And you keep going back to that example dude, lay off of it it was just that an example, I am not ever changing any gear in attempts to heal better, cause I dont care taht much IF I DID, it would be done via STAT ALLOTMENT cause I can do that. I like the fact that you can wear whatever with whomever. Leave it as is, Make class specific gear for 40+ AF whatever, but when it comes to crafter wear its whoever whenever cause most of the reason I like it is because I like being able to wear crafter gear in town and look dope.

[Abriael]

If the game does not lack class uniqueness why is SE making it so there class only gear?

Because people like you whined about it over and over and they caved.
Of course an healthy mix between specialized and generic gear is not a bad thing.

So by saying the game does not lack uniqueness but then again SE trying to fix that mean there is no real role in the game.

The fact that SE may be considering to cave under the whines of the mass of people that didn't even get how the system works doesn't mean that the system doesn't work.

In every game every RPG there is a type of "anti class" for Armor Allowing a mage to use Mail in the history of FF make them a PLD allowing them to tank and have some healing powers. Sure SE can come up with any new system they like but in history of all RPG and Online games , you never see a mage wearing Mail.

LOL! God forbid a developer introducing a new concept that's not part of the HISTORY of RPG!
Or better, of the absolutely artificial and innatural limitations that are part of the HISTORY of RPG.

Allowing everyone to wear everything and allowing everyone to do every JA,WS,Spell make other players who have diff class feel like there not really a class them selfs.

If you are affected by insecurities, it's not really SE's role to fix that.

I can just level up a mage class use the spell on my pugs and get the JobT that allow me to increase affinity to that class and i could heal myself just as good as a Mage without AOE cures in FFXI we never had much AOE cures so i don't see how i could not main heal? with mage affinity and put all my point to Mind.

1: even with traits you'll never be as good as an healer as a specialized healer. This not to mention the fact that if you use a trait to heal, your gimp yourself in your main role, because you use a trait slot for another role.
2: The fact that you can heal YOURSELF (using up time that you should use performing your main role) doesn't mean you can main heal. Main healing without any AOE effects is laughable and ineffective.
3: Your mana pool is extremely limited. Even just spamming CURE 2 over a short period of time will make you run out of mana extremely easily.

You may somehow manage to main heal on unchallenging mobs, but as soon as a mob with challenging damage/abilities comes up, you simply die, or make your group die.

You do know that every gear in the game does not really help you do a role as a hybrid Due to the fact that it does not work for your class? so wearing mail wont help you at all you better off just using your cloth vs mail.

I know that perfectly, and that's exactly the balancing factor. It allows people CHOICE, but they have to tradeoff benefits.

You simply don't know how the mechanics you're complaining about work. Again, you're partly justified by the fact that SE didn't yet introduce any challenging content to make you learn the hard way. Still, it's quite funny to read.

[EliseDee]

Because people like you whined about it over and over and they caved.
Of course an healthy mix between specialized and generic gear is not a bad thing.



The fact that SE may be considering to cave under the whines of the mass of people that didn't even get how the system works doesn't mean that the system doesn't work.



LOL! God forbid a developer introducing a new concept that's not part of the HISTORY of RPG!
Or better, of the absolutely artificial and innatural limitations that are part of the HISTORY of RPG.



If you are affected by insecurities, it's not really SE's role to fix that.



1: even with traits you'll never be as good as an healer as a specialized healer. This not to mention the fact that if you use a trait to heal, your gimp yourself in your main role, because you use a trait slot for another role.
2: The fact that you can heal YOURSELF (using up time that you should use performing your main role) doesn't mean you can main heal. Main healing without any AOE effects is laughable and ineffective.
3: Your mana pool is extremely limited. Even just spamming CURE 2 over a short period of time will make you run out of mana extremely easily.

You may somehow manage to main heal on unchallenging mobs, but as soon as a mob with challenging damage/abilities comes up, you simply die, or make your group die.



I know that perfectly, and that's exactly the balancing factor. It allows people CHOICE, but they have to tradeoff benefits.

You simply don't know how the mechanics you're complaining about work. Again, you're partly justified by the fact that SE didn't yet introduce any challenging content to make you learn the hard way. Still, it's quite funny to read.

Someone give this man a Nobel Peace Prize