Tank training

[Yshnal]

Yes, similar instances would be nice for all classes, but tanks need it the most. Carrying a bad dps through almost any instance is easy, but i'm tired of tanking on my scholar from healing agro. If i get dps'ing agro, I deserve it.

But sometimes you can get healing aggro because you have to overheal because the tank has to do a lot of extra job, or even give his back to another mob, getting more damage, or change target priority for a second because a dps is doing whatever he/she wants, and the other one keeps doing full damage without giving the tank some space to breath and fix all the stuff thus losing aggro on one or more mobs (keep in mind that the GCD is what is it, and a tank can't do an infinite number of actions at any given time). What I mean is that aggro management is a must for everyone in the party, be it for the tank to keep an eye on all targets and mark them, for dps to not go crazy and be able to slow down a bit, or for healers to not spam Medica, for example. Everyone would benefit the same, as enmity management is a responsability of the whole group, and it's mechanics are all intertwined.

[Jwrigh7784]

Speaking as a tank, I don't have a problem with some kind of tank training instance but they also need one to teach DPS to attack the marked targets and attack them in the proper order. The number of times I have lost aggro on a mob because a DPS decides to unleash on mob number 3 instead of mob number 1 is ridiculous. Fortunately I pull the aggro back almost immediately. There is a reason I place a big floating number above the mob's head.

[Steeled]

[Sometimes it's not the tank's fault. Agro management is a must for everyone]

Yeah, everything you said (I truncated), is true. If fecal hits rotary, I have no problem if the tank loses agro, but if the tank flashes 0 or twice on a whole pull, that's simply not enough, and that is the tank's fault. And yeah, a good example is AK. If you're fighting a pack as a fresh tank, so not chainpulling, and a big guy comes into the group, everyone should switch to that unless something like at 20% hp. The big guys hp just melts and it has the most potential to kill the tank. Anyone that doesn't is Doing It Wrong.

Also, with good tanks at my level, I play Bane'ing scholar 33 (not cleric stanced lol). When I pull agro because of my dots, it's usually on one mob, not the whole pack, and there's not peep of complaint. The tank probably could have flashed again and held it all, but I don't expect a new tank to understand the power of "SCH-ummoner"

[Zakalwe]

I spend a lot of time worrying that my level ~30 Gladiator skill is not that great. I stress over dungeon runs, and panic every time hate bounces or a mob goes after my mage. [snip]

If you are stressing, and panicking, and worrying about maintaining aoe aggro, you are (or will be) a great tank. My toughest time tanking was at early cap because no primal decided I deserved a primal sword, despite well over 50 Ifrit and Garuda runs to try to get one. So this whole time I was running AK and WP often with +1 relic dps on my poor little green GC sword. I managed ok. Couldn't do speed runs, but managed to keep hate. I finally (after many many fail groups) ended up successfully tanking Titan HM with that little GC sword (though with full DL with a couple iLVL 90 pieces thrown in). Now, with a relic sword maintaining aoe aggro seems like a snap, given my many weeks of training.

Basically, the standard PLD way is pull with shield lob, flash, start your single target aggro combo on #1, sharing some with #2, flash again, do the same sharing some this time with #3, flash again, and by this time #1 is dead and keep on with the other two. This standard approach will alter some depending on whether you are with single target dps or with aoe dps.

Good luck!

[Kewitt]

As a WAR not a MRD...

Most of the time I can do a WP or AK without lossing hate more then 2-3 times in the run.
Other times I get a random WHM always WHM, that doesn't use there ability to cut hate and Sure enough they are pulling mobs off of me.

[Grailer]

Speaking as a tank, I don't have a problem with some kind of tank training instance but they also need one to teach DPS to attack the marked targets and attack them in the proper order. The number of times I have lost aggro on a mob because a DPS decides to unleash on mob number 3 instead of mob number 1 is ridiculous. Fortunately I pull the aggro back almost immediately. There is a reason I place a big floating number above the mob's head.

I gave up putting numbers above mobs heads. Its as if the dps blantantly target the mob not marked just to troll the tank .

I think the main issue is that a good tank will try to save the idiot from dying , whereas if the tank and healer let the guy die he would soon learn ( hopefully ) . Of course if the repair costs were higher they would soon go broke and unable to afford to repair .

Anyways what I do is attack mob , when dps attack wrong one I will switch to that target . Basically I let the DPS choose the target which is wrong but what can you do right ? Sometimes you just gotta go with the flow just to get things done .

[Sunociva]

I don't understand what's so tough that some people don't get. I can afk half an instance as PLD and come back and still have threat on something... Tanking in the game is mind numbing compared to other games in the past...

[Gardes]

I always thought of that. Like, have training hests that people can do solo and puts them in an instance alone for various objectives with the purpose of teaching them, complete with the npc announcements like in story quests to assist you on what to do. Like,

-AoE obstacle course (many types, some with boss simulations)
-Healing course (heal npcs so they dont die and can kill the monsters)
-Tanking course (take in all aggro so npcs can stay alive and can kill the monsters)
-DPS course (dps check with aoe obstacle course)
-et cetra

Put incentive for people to do this repeatedly. If class quests have you doing things you need to do in a party, it obviously does not happen often enough to hammer it in.

[Steeled]

Too many people, like myself, don't read quest text and NPC dialogue is quite often flavor that I usually ignore it.

I got through the paladin quests because tanking is common sense to me and I was usually provoking off the NPCs even when I probably shouldn't have (tank npc's)

So yeah, people need to be slapped in the face with it. It took me about 30 seconds to figure out that flash is caster-based, unlike the level 30 paladins who have dragged poor groups through and not figured it out. I just never really had undue hate problems because it's just common sense.