Buying less than 99

[Wulfies]

I am all-about the hand-tieing to make it hard but think this is a bit extrememe. For example, when I sell my HQ Electrum Ore...

Ah...I see the problem now. The underlying problem is not retainer space, but more on your choice on what to sell.

Electrum ingot is a lv40+ craft if I remember correctly...the HQ ore doesn't sells well. People at their 40s will generally push it to 50 quickly, which then they would be able to HQ an ingot without the needs of HQ ore. Those that use HQ ore are only Goldsmith, crafting it into HQ ingots to sell it to other classes...however by this time HQ electrum ingot market would had been dominated by level 50 crafters who can easily craft them from NQ ore. Thus the motivation to craft HQ electrum ingot is less than the lower level ingots, which directly results in a lower demand of electrum ore. Even when a goldsmith is using it at level 40 to HQ some of his equipments, he's gonna be needing way more than 4 of them...so I would say you're in the wrong market to break bulk, and you're breaking them wrong.

You might think that increasing retainer space will allow you to sell more...but that's misguided. It only allows you to list more....along with all the other players. Increasing retainer slots by 50% would increase the number of items being sold in the market by 50%. That's 50% more competition than what you are looking at now, 50% more items will be listed in minimum quantity. Do you think your item will still sell? This would allow the minority of dedicated farmer who had perfected their technique (or bots, but that's another separate issue by itself) to move more of their efficiently obtained materials.

I do not think you read my entire post. I am just using Elecrum Ore as an example, you can inter-change any stackable item for HQ Electrum Ore (it was the first item that came to my head.)

As you said, people will push their level to 50 quickly regardless and will be able to HQ with NQ mats. This would be the case all the way down the pipe (to use an example of the Electrum, Ores ---> Ingots ---> "some finished product") Pretty soon everyone will be able to HQ all the mats from beginig to end (hell, I can do that now without too much effort or risk.)

So at the end of the day, what I really want is to be able to put my stack of 99 and have people buy from my stack in orders of 3 or what ever i feel like. It solves two problems:

1) we can keep the "mini game" or bulk ordering discount
2) I can put my entire supply of an item on the MBs


And also, since we are at what I really want, SE should add a Buy-Oder side of the AH. Concept is below:


Buy-Order Side AH

[Wazabi]

I really like the buy order idea.

Buying less than 99 probably will raise other issues and won't work as you intended it to. As I've stated in my last paragraph, everyone else will be able to do that. The only reason we are not seeing more 1pc post now is precisely because of retainer slot limits. If we do what you propose, there's nothing stopping me from posting 40 stacks of items set to sell 1 at a time....and others will do the same. That will totally destroys this "mini game" and you'll probably get more ppl crying about 1g undercut (not that I care). End result, you'll find selling way harder than it is now.

[Darkwerk]

I like the buy order idea also. I think it should add another dimension to the markets without effecting to much the normal MB,if handled correctly. A reverse of the MB maybe, where the buyer pays ahead while placing an order.If the order is filled within a set time, the seller is paid and delivery made. If the order is not filled, then gil refunded. This would allow the buyer to play at the sellers game somewhat,but force those in need of an item right now to go to the MB.

My only thoughts are on how messy it would be to implement and how popular it would be,would it be a ghost town or destroy the MB. Even still a buyer v/s seller game to dominate might be fun.

[Rrylia]

I like the buy order idea also. I think it should add another dimension to the markets without effecting to much the normal MB,if handled correctly. A reverse of the MB maybe, where the buyer pays ahead while placing an order.If the order is filled within a set time, the seller is paid and delivery made. If the order is not filled, then gil refunded. This would allow the buyer to play at the sellers game somewhat,but force those in need of an item right now to go to the MB.

My only thoughts are on how messy it would be to implement and how popular it would be,would it be a ghost town or destroy the MB. Even still a buyer v/s seller game to dominate...

GW2 had a similar system so can't be un achievable. Personally I felt it contributed to the sub-game colloquially referred to as "TP wars" which is boring, but it does prove it can be done. Whether it's a success or not, I couldn't say, too many other factors are different in that game than FFXIV.

[Wulfies]

I really like the buy order idea.

Buying less than 99 probably will raise other issues and won't work as you intended it to. As I've stated in my last paragraph, everyone else will be able to do that. The only reason we are not seeing more 1pc post now is precisely because of retainer slot limits. If we do what you propose, there's nothing stopping me from posting 40 stacks of items set to sell 1 at a time....and others will do the same. That will totally destroys this "mini game" and you'll probably get more ppl crying about 1g undercut (not that I care). End result, you'll find selling way harder than it is now.

Hi, It seemed to work OK in 1.0 and I do not believe we had a "market crash." I made a decent amount of gil /shrug (I might just be the exception )

Side Note: I did not mean tot hijack the thread with my "Buy-Order" concept so, if you can, please comment on that post (which some of you have already because I welcome the thoughts and constructive criticism)

[MPNZ]

I think it would be better if mats that are above 15k were sold in smaller more affordable batches. You divide a batch of 99 into 33 and add a little extra to the price for the smaller bundle. EX: ItemA x 99 = 9k, itemA x 33 = 3.5k. But, people already do this. If you're looking for a specific amount, a commission board per server might be a better idea for you and many.

[Wulfies]

I think it would be better if mats that are above 15k were sold in smaller more affordable batches. You divide a batch of 99 into 33 and add a little extra to the price for the smaller bundle. EX: ItemA x 99 = 9k, itemA x 33 = 3.5k. But, people already do this. If you're looking for a specific amount, a commission board per server might be a better idea for you and many.

That is what is currently implemented in the MBs. Also, its the economy of the server that determines the prices. For example, on Sargatanas, you might be able to buy a cobalt ingot for 2k but on Lamia the same ingot might be 20k (super exageration of course, but the underlying point remains).

To answer your final sentence, see my post #11

[Wazabi]

The market might or might not crash depending on when is this changes implemented. If the change is implemented before the market matures and stabalize, then you should be able to see a very visible downward price adjustment. If the market is already matured, then we'll probably see only small adjustments. Things seems to work well in 1.0 because there are so little players in 1.0, so price movements to equilibrium level will generally be way slower....so you probably won't be able to tell the difference between both system. Trading in a small market is quite different to trading in a large market.

I think it is relatively easier for players to make money in a small/undeveloped market, or in a market with a lot of constraint, or where information is hard to obtain because there are less competition.

[Wulfies]

The market might or might not crash depending on when is this changes implemented. If the change is implemented before the market matures and stabalize, then you should be able to see a very visible downward price adjustment. If the market is already matured, then we'll probably see only small adjustments. Things seems to work well in 1.0 because there are so little players in 1.0, so price movements to equilibrium level will generally be way slower....so you probably won't be able to tell the difference between both system. Trading in a small market is quite different to trading in a large market.

I think it is relatively easier for players to make money in a small/undeveloped market, or in a market with a lot of constraint, or where information is hard to obtain because there are less competition.

You are right, there is no proof either way that the market will or will not crash. People seem to be adamant that the market WILL crash due to any type of change that would occur. Personally, that's a huge assumption to be made.

I will concede the fact that the world size was smaller during the 1.0 era as compared to now (since SE did open "new" servers and server transfers took place, I don't think that that significant.) But even with that being said, I do feel that the market would have "matured" by now on pretty much all the servers, thus drops would only seem minor in comparison.

Also, irrespective of mature or not matured market, there will still be market spikes (low and high) due to people a) trying to manipulate the market prices and b) stupid people. So your never going to get a steady equilibrium. You will get close

As with your final statement, two things, 1) its a "Duh" moment, anyone with any grasp of economics would/should agree and 2) I am unsure where you are heading with this sentence.

[Wazabi]

As with your final statement, two things, 1) its a "Duh" moment, anyone with any grasp of economics would/should agree and 2) I am unsure where you are heading with this sentence.

It may be a "duh" to you...but you'll be suprised how many people are "confused" about economics. Just trying to summarize the real problem that is causing players to be less successful at trading when compared to some of their other games.