Will Paladins get an enmity boost as well?

[Steeled]

I'm not at all saying paladins need an enmity boost, but the most curious thing to me in the warrior patch notes was a few abilities getting enmity boosts. To be honest, aside from pickup (because war's mp is a precious commodity so hitting flash more than once blows--like when the healer mistimes a cure), I find holding hate on war easier than paladin, but that might just be me.

We've all seen the exceptionally bad tanks, I'm sure, but enmity boosts won't really help them. Flash with 3x the enmity still = 0 when the paladin isn't casting flash (or the war isn't OP'ing).

The only thing it helps is the undergeared tanks who are really trying, and I approve of this.

[Marleytiva]

I think that Warriors are receiving the enmity boost because of a few factors. The base 20% healing bonus could be troublesome if you're hit with a heavy heal at the beginning of a fight and it seems that SE wants to give Warriors the ability to use their other two combos (Storm's Eye/Path) with a little more frequency. Like I said, it's just my opinion, but those reasons make a lot of sense to me.

Edit: AoE enmity generation has never really been an issue for my Paladin. While my Warrior will run out of TP and MP, my Paladin can regenerate it's own resources indefinitely with Riot Blade etc.

[Bigpurpleharness]

I think that Warriors are receiving the enmity boost because of a few factors. The base 20% healing bonus could be troublesome if you're hit with a heavy heal at the beginning of a fight and it seems that SE wants to give Warriors the ability to use their other two combos (Storm's Eye/Path) with a little more frequency. Like I said, it's just my opinion, but those reasons make a lot of sense to me.

Edit: AoE enmity generation has never really been an issue for my Paladin. While my Warrior will run out of TP and MP, my Paladin can regenerate it's own resources indefinitely with Riot Blade etc.

This is probably the most correct answer. That being said, I found the overpower change unnecessary, but whatever.

[Bayman]

I'm not at all saying paladins need an enmity boost, but the most curious thing to me in the warrior patch notes was a few abilities getting enmity boosts.

Honestly, I think its because WAR's are going to focus on the storm's debuff for for mitigation that we will not be using our hate combo as often. PLD has one real combo, and its high threat. They also get their mitigation as a constant buff and cd's. WAR's have to use rotations to get everything going. Meaning, we will be doing less threat for more defense. In AOE circumstances, we normally spam overpower... the boost will let us keep our mitigation up while not loosing threat. This is a whole new way to use the WAR, but its the best guess I can come up with why they would change it.

[Steeled]

I can agree with most of this, good insight.

Although the hp biuff = shield oath, and with defiance now baking in healing, the two are nearly even (yes I know defiance falls just the slightest bit behind).

Wars usually open with Infuriate so they've always been recieving the big heals right off that bat. I've never had a problem mixing in Storm's Eye (I previously pretty much ignored Path, but that will change).

[Testosterone]

I would just like them to fix shield oath. I know for a fact the enimity increase on it is not working as intended all the time.

[Vortok]

Adding an enmity multiplier to Shield Swipe would be the simplest way of handling it. Likely at least a x4 multiplier, since with a x3 it would basically equal Savage Blade (and thus using Shield Swipe would still be lower threat since it delays Halone - there is the cheaper TP cost to consider, but WAR is about to be able to use 0 TP moves like Inner Beast with more frequency than now).

The random nature of Shield Swipe procs + how little time the game gives you to use it means it usually isn't practical to use it for the Pacification effect. That and weaving in Shield Swipes regularly would make PLD slightly more interesting to play than pressing 1, 2, 3 forever and ever. The TP savings over an extended fight/chain pulling would be nice as well.

It could be removed from the GCD (in which case you could have situations like a BRD does with Bloodletter procs, given a high block rate and enough incoming swings), but it'd still be lackluster without an enmity bonus. And since PLD's stun is on the GCD, leaving Shield Swipe on the GCD and adjusting it there seems like a more cohesive design.

Definitely little things here and there with PLD that would be nice to see get some polish.

[Githiun]

Coming from both a Pld and Healer perspective I think that the Pld could use a threat boost. Has the top 10% of players who know their class and are geared won't have a problem. Even the middle of the line players may not have TOO much of a problem.

But here's soemthing you need to think about. What about the new players? Do you know how frustrating it is to DF. Get into a party, you really are a decent player. You care about threat and making sure you're healers/dps aren't getting beat on and because the average player is significantly geared better than you you're guaranteed to lose threat.

It really alienates the new players. Upgrading your weapon is so important and so difficult as a tank early on. i55 weapon aint gonna do much against an i70/i90 geared BLM..

[PArcher]

I don't really know why Overpower is getting a boost. I have no issues grabbing hate with it right now, especially the Unchained + Berserk combo (one alone is good too on smaller pulls). The only thing I can think of as to why it is being buffed is because its TP cost is really high; if you OP spam to grab a group's hate you're likely to run out of TP before the group is dead, especially if you were a little TP deficient before the pull (at the same time, using Unchained + Berserk before the OP spam will generate so much hate that you can just tab out til things are dead, especially if you're really geared)

Based on playing with some PAL (mine's not leveled yet) I don't see Flash needing a buff either. PAL have Riot Blade to regen mana, so its not as big of an issue to Flash during your RoH combos if you have to, even moreso since it doesn't break combos like OP does.

[Giantbane]

I don't really know why Overpower is getting a boost. I have no issues grabbing hate with it right now, especially the Unchained + Berserk combo (one alone is good too on smaller pulls). The only thing I can think of as to why it is being buffed is because its TP cost is really high; if you OP spam to grab a group's hate you're likely to run out of TP before the group is dead, especially if you were a little TP deficient before the pull (at the same time, using Unchained + Berserk before the OP spam will generate so much hate that you can just tab out til things are dead, especially if you're really geared)

Based on playing with some PAL (mine's not leveled yet) I don't see Flash needing a buff either. PAL have Riot Blade to regen mana, so its not as big of an issue to Flash during your RoH combos if you have to, even moreso since it doesn't break combos like OP does.

I don't know if PLD really have much of an advantage in this regard. Overpower seems to be much stronger for enmity generation than flash is, even moreso when you stack it with maim, berserk, internal release and/or unchained (fight or flight doesn't seem to do much as far as flash is concerned). The one supposed advantage of flash is that you can restore your mana to keep flashing by switching to a fast->riot->flash combo. However, this takes 2 GCD to build up the mana. In that time, the WAR has almost generated enough TP to perform another overpower, which should not only provide more enmity overall, but more damage too. The WAR also has the option to flash while waiting on TP provided he has some mana left.

Even now, this seems to favor the WAR greatly. I'm actually surprised that a lesser version of overpower isn't available as cross class ability for the PLD to use with fight or flight to better balance this out. It seems like it's going to be very slanted in the WARs favor after 2.1 when overpower and defiance both generate more enmity.