Paladin is the better tank, but Warrior is the better class

[Marxam]

war just teaches you how to micro manage. i.e wrath stacks, maim, SE debuff, berserk, etc. pld just teaches you 1-2-3 and use your def skills to buy the healer some time. Other than that they are really the same other than the bad class balancing. I wonder why the war hp is no higher to begin with. A pld in the exact same dl gear and relic 1 will have about 500-600 less hp than a war which is stupid because the war's mitigation buffer comes from having a large hp pool (which it doesn't have atm). I personally feel that war should be able to reach 9400+ hp with full ilvl 90 equips in defiance w/o any other buffs.

[Paikis]

war just teaches you how to micro manage. i.e wrath stacks, maim, SE debuff, berserk, etc. pld just teaches you 1-2-3 and use your def skills to buy the healer some time. Other than that they are really the same other than the bad class balancing. I wonder why the war hp is no higher to begin with. A pld in the exact same dl gear and relic 1 will have about 500-600 less hp than a war which is stupid because the war's mitigation buffer comes from having a large hp pool (which it doesn't have atm). I personally feel that war should be able to reach 9400+ hp with full ilvl 90 equips in defiance w/o any other buffs.

A Warrior in the same gear will have 25% more hitpoints than a Paladin. That is the entire point of Defiance. A 5,000hp Paladin is comparable to a 6,250hp Warrior. A 7,000hp PLD would have 8,750hp as a WAR, assuming the same gear. It is slightly more due to WAR having slightly higher base VIT... and then it will be slightly lower, because you're not gearing the same as a PLD... are you?

[Lucavern]

A Warrior in the same gear will have 25% more hitpoints than a Paladin. That is the entire point of Defiance. A 5,000hp Paladin is comparable to a 6,250hp Warrior. A 7,000hp PLD would have 8,750hp as a WAR, assuming the same gear. It is slightly more due to WAR having slightly higher base VIT... and then it will be slightly lower, because you're not gearing the same as a PLD... are you?

All of the ilvl90 tank gear pieces have the same vit score across all 3 sets (Allagan,war/pld af2, hero's). So the total gained vit from full ilvl90 will be the same for PLD and WAR. The only places I can think of where you'd see a possible difference in vit are race, class, and different food options to aim for different stats (not sure which food is best for WAR, nor what the VIT gains for it is).

[Mishini_Dracoto]

All of the ilvl90 tank gear pieces have the same vit score across all 3 sets (Allagan,war/pld af2, hero's). So the total gained vit from full ilvl90 will be the same for PLD and WAR. The only places I can think of where you'd see a possible difference in vit are race, class, and different food options to aim for different stats (not sure which food is best for WAR, nor what the VIT gains for it is).

errummm, As a WAR, I spec STR. as a PLD, I spec VIT. Currently, my PLD isn't 50 yet, when it gets there, I'll be wearing almost all of the same gear as my WAR. . . (DL, and getting Allagan now) HOWEVER - a LOT of WAR's swap out a lot of the 'standard' tank gear for DPS gear / melded HQ Gryphonskin rings etc. I'm fairly certain that's what Paikis is talking about.

[Leiron]

A Warrior in the same gear will have 25% more hitpoints than a Paladin. That is the entire point of Defiance. A 5,000hp Paladin is comparable to a 6,250hp Warrior. A 7,000hp PLD would have 8,750hp as a WAR, assuming the same gear. It is slightly more due to WAR having slightly higher base VIT... and then it will be slightly lower, because you're not gearing the same as a PLD... are you?

You are doing it wrong.
20% mitigation = 25% more health
You'll have slightly higher than that as a Warrior due to a slightly higher vitality base, but otherwise the buffs are the exact same.

[TaneshimaPopura]

Under normal circumstances Paladin will not be TP starved unless he overspams Shield Lob, Riot Blade or unless the fight spans through a time of 15 minutes of continuous back to back GCD usage.

If HP is all there is to tanking why don't you ask that Lancer to fit in all Vitality accessories and Materia and tank? Answer: when you have HP to survive a certain hit your next aim is eHP, which is to maximize every single ounce of HP you have. On that department Warriors lose a lot as in reduction of damage without accounting for CD usage.

Yes it is true that warrior does more DPS than Paladin, but more threat? No, cause he has to maintain Maim, SE combo which do not have Enmity increase. Maim only buffs the warrior, and only Paladins and Warriors benefit from SE debuff.

Warrior is not the better class, warrior isn't the harder class. It is just an undertuned class, refuse to believe it is as much as believing Santa Clause will fill your socks instead of your parents.

[TaneshimaPopura]

Also Shield Swipe has better DPS per GCD. 210/2.5 vs (150+200+260)/7.5 ; 84 vs 81.33. Once you are stable on threat there is no reason not to use Shield Swipe. And to those tanks who say that it is the Tanks job to generate Threat and not worry about DPS as it is not your job. If that is the case, don't pop CDs cause it is the healer's job to heal through it. Sounds dumb isn't it? If you have the potential to contribute then contribute.

It is the join effort of the party to take the boss down. Your responsibility is to be able to down the boss, second is tanking/threat.

[Rydia13]

Personally I've played a bit of both gladiator and marauder and I think marauder is the more fun job, even though it's a tad harder to get hate initially when fighting a group.

I wanted to to ask since I'm still new to WAR, what should I be focusing on as far as gear and attribute points placement? I've been told that STR is more important that VIT due to the parry power. Also, since DEX increases your parry rate, is that worth worrying about too? The guys.

[Mihael_Longclaw]

Before endgame I don't see healers making use of the 15% healing gains over Inner Beasts, as for Berserk, this should be used near constantly, pacified means nothing, you still have flash, provoke, and mercy stroke, it's a huge DPS gain, and if you somehow lose aggro after Berserking enmity combos, you're a bad undergeared tank, lol.
WARs are given offensive cooldowns for a reason, use them consistently, Unchained and Berserk can mean the difference between Phase 4 wiping on Titan or not.

I think, Storm's Path should have an overheal ability like Thrill of Battle, to a max of 1500 or so.

Make it so Holmgang, if it's resisted, we're not stuck in place - but also, all damage is converted to HP for it's duration of 6 seconds.

Inner Beast should do more healing the lower your HP, say 500% at 10% HP.

Bloodbath raised to 75% (from a trait, make it 40% base).

Steel Cyclone should have a debuff, such as silence or slow.
I think these fixes can make WAR as viable as a PLD

[TaneshimaPopura]

@Steeled

I'm using Bravura and Curtana both +0 and as you posted yourself is there any reason why RoH combo should do more damage than Butcher Block? Butcher Block has higher potency multiplier, Maim +20% damage to forgo parts of Defiance. The numbers are just wrong somewhere... It's like defiance is reducing more than just "25%". Mind you Warriors have 10 STR more than Paladin which equates to almost 1 Weapon DMG difference. With Curtana winning out due to quicker swings. Then if we look deeper, Paladin's have 2 skill off the GCD which are spammable with no cost causing 350-550 potency advantage.

Under perfect conditions I just don't see Warrior being capable of OutDPSing Paladin at all even if I were to Pop Berserk, Brutal Swing on CD, Unchained on CD and Inner Beast on Fury. And the disparity widens when they are asked to DPS as OT. One will not toggle Wrathand can only use Inner Beast every 60 seconds, whilst the other gains 60% auto attack damage with no strings attached.