Tanking, I think we have a problem

[Phai]

I have a good idea....why don't your retarded DPS hold back for a few seconds to let the tank build aggro?

Nonono, emnety list is for bling bling

But yeh, this and problem solved! Teamwork is a myth

[Parasoth]

You guys are talking about 2 different points in XI.

The enmity formulas worked fine at 75, but they broke at level cap increased, and the devs just never cared to try to fix it. They did tweak healing's enmity, but they were quite okay with monks, samurais, etc tanking.

No, it wasn't. Before WOTG even came out people were already doing most end-game without PLD because after everyone hits hate cap in the alliance, the PLD isn't doing enough DPS to maintain hate or even bounce it, which made it pointless to bring when you could get a WAR/NIN who was top DPS and bounced hate just fine.

Also, don't give me crap about "well your DPS don't know when to hold back." They shouldn't HAVE to hold back, especially when there is an option that ALLOWED them to not hold back.

[Johnist]

The OP's problem exists between the chair and keyboard/controller.

[Steeled]

Not to side with the OP, not at all, but..

Tanking, undergeared, now is a different beast than it was 2.5 months ago, even a month ago.

My PC fried a few weeks ago, and I was offline for 2.5 weeks, and I went from seeing relics frequently enough in pugs to nearly every pug has 3-4 relics (counting mine). I honestly couldn't imagine what tanking must be like now, people demand more than undergeared tanks can put out, and some of the dps are so geared that few early crits and they can pull some aoe mobs off a geared tank (it's happened to me, and I've seen it happen). It's acceptable, it neither makes the tank bad nor the dps bad for doing it.

TL;DR: I have some sympathy for fresh 50 tanks who have no other job to siphon gear/tomes from. People don't want them in their instances and they don't want them in their Garudas (and Ifrits if both tanks are "undergeared")

No, it wasn't. Before WOTG even came out people were already doing most end-game without PLD because after everyone hits hate cap in the alliance, the PLD isn't doing enough DPS to maintain hate or even bounce it, which made it pointless to bring when you could get a WAR/NIN who was top DPS and bounced hate just fine.

Also, don't give me crap about "well your DPS don't know when to hold back." They shouldn't HAVE to hold back, especially when there is an option that ALLOWED them to not hold back.

I had no problem maintaining hate before and during WotG, but you're right, PLD had some problems before WotG and then Mythics came out and all PLDs could get atonement and the problem was solved.

I agree that dps holding back is dumb, and enmity cap is dumb. The obvious and easy to fix to enmity cap, if it was so hard-coded into the game, would have been to divide the enmity values of everything by 10, enmity cap just climbed 10x. So what if, in that model, cure 1 was shoved right off the enmity tables, big deal.

I also think that there's a different between holding back and not cutting loose at the very start. Battle models where dps sometimes need to wait 15 seconds before they blow their load are not a bad thing, it's part of team work.

Instead, they chose to do nothing.

[MomoOG]

Sure sure Lobby to keep agro the way it is, I mean there are so many tanks now as it is.....Must be the fun PLD tactic's of "Spam Flash" "Cycle through the targets" "Split your Combo". Ya sounds like awesome fun. I mean a tank having a easyer time with agro would suck cuz then they could dps a little with riot blade or somthing....Omg who would want that

I switched from PLD to MNK because tanking was TOO EASY.

[LobsterBisque]

I find that if the DD's give you 10-15 sec head start. You will easily keep hate.

10-15 seconds? The mob should be dead by then. If its a boss I can see waiting till the tank does his first combo, but a lot of fights have the dps pulling off the boss to fight adds.

[Phai]

The OP's problem exists between the chair and keyboard/controller.

Oh, u sitting on OP's lap? Otherwise ur wrong

[Dreamer]

I don't understand this thread. Everybody knows the numbers and bars on the left side of the party list indicate how well you're doing damage. If you're doing the best, it even gives you an 'A' for "Awesome!"