What's up with tanks?

[teh_nam3less]

ofc...we are tank

@OP : if you dislike the way the other play tank, be one yourself. Play the tank style you want to be instead of complain on forum

Ahhhhhhhh finally! Someone got that.

[Alcyon_Densetsu]

I may be one of the "better tanks" people speak of in this thread —always checking on the minimap to see if others were following and close enough to engage the next pack, checking the healer's mana, explaining strategies to first-timers, marking mobs all the time to set kill priority; overall basic tanking stuff like this, things we tank are supposed to do in every MMO. But eventually, I left the game. Why is that so?

Abuse from others
Duty Finder happened, and from my level 30's or so on, I had to cope with insults and the likes on a regular basis. That put me off using this tool (I must say I never experienced as much sh** as I did in this game, in all other MMO's I played from WoW to TOR passing by Aion or STO, the community was overall much more civil, less "LOL-esque" or "CoD-esque", and I was always using similar auto-grouping features). I got insulted in Ifrit too, back when I was learning the stun rotation. The last straw happened in CM, when I quit a group two times in a row for reasons of abuse I just can't condone (literally people insulting me for explaining to first timers how to run the dungeon fast, since I thought it was better to lose a few minutes explaining than to lose more wiping). I hate leaving groups, I never do that (and bash those that do, even friends of mine), but I just couldn't take it any more. After this day, I never used the Duty Finder again alone (only with friends if we couldn't make a full group).

Clunky and unresponsive combat, which adds up to many other more minor issues not readily addressed by SE
Then Titan HM and Coil happened, with the global unresponsiveness of the combat system (silence randomly not working, dodging randomly not possible since the red areas would appear too late or we would get hit even if we were out). People would get mad at each other ("L2P!!!!" — "but I WAS out" — "no I saw you IN" — when clearly what we see isn't what's really happening in the game, we can't even tell if an AE or cast bar is accurately displayed on time, how can we judge what others do? nevermind, people are just so agressive and harsh...) Since SE didn't answer on any of those issues (this one and again this one, both speaking of the same problem, that one must memorise enemy skills' order exactly to beat the encounters instead of reacting to what's happening). Also, as a PLD, I hate it when my skills are unresponsive (as explained here for instance, in the case of Hallowed Ground or WHM's Benediction), it just takes the fun away from playing for me, that I would randomly fail or succeed when I (or others) do the right thing on my screen (or confirmed via vocal chat). I also don't like that this game takes away my social choices, and in general developers here want to dictate how we should play in a patronising manner ("zoom your camera out!…" yeah…), but these are minor inconveniences compared to the combat issues, I suppose. It just adds up to many other small issues (UI limitations, tabbed bags, no sorting feature, long delay for every single action in the game, even moving an item from a slot to the next…) that made crafting a whole world of pain and frustration, way too much time-sinking for me. Issues that SE doesn't plan to address before months, if ever, even when some of these issues could be fixed in a couple hours of work (such as naming the map next to teleport destinations, no need to create a map next to it seriously…)

FF has changed in a way that doesn't fit the fan I used to be, but clearly some others still enjoy it
By the end of October, I hadn't played for two weeks. So I suspended my subscription to the game, and won't come back until I see something being done in terms of combat responsiveness. Because as it stands, it's just not fun for me. All the other issues, I can probably live with, even if it's very sub-par to all other MMO's I've tried, but that the combat feels frustrating is a huge problem for me, it's just not acceptable for a "game" —I mean, if I'm not having fun, why should I stay? I really like the game overall, and used to be a big FF fan (at least up until XII included), but in ARR the clunkiness of combat just kills my fun (a bit like the inability to control my team killed the fun for me in FFXIII: it's only one thing but it's too huge to ignore or get over with, it's just frustrating to lose and die because of it so often, even more so when it was a staple of the FF IP in all other canonic titles). SE doesn't say a word about these issues in ARR, though, or they claim it's "working as intended", they only address minor cosmetic issues overall; so I guess I have to come to the realisation that their vision no longer fits my tastes. Sad to see one of my favorite IP evolve in a way I don't like, but that's life. Who am I to criticise SE when clearly millions still buy their vision of FF? I must be wrong, they must be right. That FF XIII (2009) sold less than FF VI (1994), even though the video game market has been multiplied by ten in the same time, is probably not an objective a sign of dismay, is it? So those of us who criticise SE's choices of design must be wrong, that must be it.

Everything may be connected… or not? Who's to say?
To answer your question, OP, here's the thing: there's no reason why people like me would be "better" or "worse" as players, right? These tastes of mine (responsive game, decent community, getting basic social/UI features available in most MMO…) shouldn't be linked to a particular sense of respect for others, or objectivity as a critic, right? That's what heavy defenders of this game claim, they say I'm wrong and not objective to want it different or to criticise how this game was designed, because for them it's perfect as it stands: the "memory game" is fine, that's how it should be, memorise everything and then you can dodge/silence/etc. I'm not having fun doing that —I'm very good at conceptualising and analysing, but very bad at memorising stuff. So be it, I left. I'm pretty sure some of the whiteknights claiming there's no problem are very nice, very good players, aren't they? And as they say, "you're wrong to ask for better tanks, you should play tank yourself" —in other words, eat it, or fix your own problem. Well… I, for one, am done with this selfish and closed-minded mentality. The whiteknights can keep this game to themselves, I just hope they're ok with getting half the content they could get if there were a million subscribers —as this game should have, if a few key issues were fixed, and people weren't finding excuses for SE all the time. Because it's not helping players like me. It's making us leave, and not looking back.

In the end…
I only wished this game to be better than others, I only wished this game to be at least on-par with the competition, and provided feedback and sound arguments as to how and why it could, and should be. I played as such, too, because I go with the motto: "be the change you want to see". I was met with silence from SE, and insults from many players. It makes me sick. So, why should I waste any more of my personal time? Clearly, be it the FF IP, or its community, I no longer belong here. SE and its players made that very clear. Now, I'm looking forward to Star Citizen, where player feedback is taken seriously; and in the meantime, I still have WoW and others with their good to excellent combat systems (and in the case of WoW, the best customer service in the industry). Not to mention quite appreciable communities, whatever people say about them: I've never been so abused in a MMO as I've been here. As a customer, I (and others voicing valid complains/feedback) have never been so ignored and patronised by the developers.

[Nocens]

Speed runs ruined it. Just saying.

[Obreck]

Heh, yeah I tend to keep things moving at a steady pace but I am very mindful to make sure my group is keeping up. I consider keeping track of the other players part of the job of being a tank. Not doing myself any favors jumping into combat with the rest of the team left behind anyways

Players aggressively jumping into combat faster than everyone can keep up never turns out well. You can get away with moving ahead to clear trash mobs while some of the DPS are "brb", but aside from that its usually a mess.

[Zumi]

Honestly you should be following the tank, they are the leader, they pull the mobs and set the pace of the dungeon. Lagging behind because your not paying attention as a healer or dps that's your fault.

[Kiroh]

As someone who has done a ton of WP SRs (15 mins and less, average right now is hovering around 14mins) there is just one thing I would like to say :

For the love of all that is holy wait for me to cast Stoneskin before you run off. I cannot count the amount of times a tank has been so impatient that they ran ahead because they couldn't wait the 2 seconds it takes to cast Stoneskin.

Seriously.

WAIT
FOR
STONESKIN

Thank you. ._.b

[Sunarie]

Just from personal experience, since my new sleep schedule has me pugging a lot due to FC members not being on when I can play, when I've tried to take my time and pull slowly inevitably someone in the group complains about it (not always in a rude way, but asking if we can go faster and such). So, what I typically do is wait for everyone to get buffed and run forward a bit at the beginning of an instance and then chain pull from there (unless I have to stop to type or something alone those lines). I've not once had anyone complain that I was going too fast. Note that chain pulling is not the same as a speed run, I don't do speed runs.

If it's an issue you can always ask them to slow down. I'm sure some of us would be happy to hear it.

Also as a side note, one of the reasons I probably don't get complaints is because I don't lose aggro and do keep an eye on healers mana. If I see they are far behind or weren't moving for a bit, or not casting, then I am completely capable of stopping.

[amnie]

Honestly you should be following the tank, they are the leader, they pull the mobs and set the pace of the dungeon. Lagging behind because your not paying attention as a healer or dps that's your fault.

so, I've seen a few people claim this before in this very topic, but who the hell decided on this and why the hell have I NEVER seen it become an 'MMO rule' even though I've been playing them for almost 14 years now?

granted Tanks do make good raid leaders since they already have to pay attention to pretty much everything, but so do healer and ranged dps. hell, our main raid's leader in my LOTRO kinship (and that was progression raiding) was a freaking burglar and he was AMAZING at his job (burglar = melee dps)

the leader is the leader. i'm not 'switching' my role depending on which class I play and i don't expect others to do so, either. I also think you don't understand what 'being a leader' means when you think it's cool of a LEADER to not wait for the rest of his troop. I take you're not a military person

[joshdavis271]

I will move to the next spot ahead of the group but will never engage the enemy unless I know my team is behind me ready to support me, gungho tanks especially in a DF group are more likely the first to die.

[warren-ragnarok]

i love healing tanks that do that, especially when they die and want to say "shitty healer didnt even heal me" and i always reply, "stupid tank, thinks he can solo the whole place "