Shroud of Saints mana regen should not be static

[Syncness]

At the moment shroud regens 1060 (or something very very similar) mana at level 50.

It does not scale with PIE.

I don't really want to bring class comparisons into this, but Aetherflow regens 20% IIRC.

The current mechanic of shroud is also detrimental to any PIE builds, which I guess is fine since stats have downsides. Whilst PIE does have other uses such as the 2% regen, mana usage - for the most part - is controllable in current content (Coil 1-5).

My suggestion is that shroud should have a partial PIE scaling component at the bare minimum. This is suggestion is not because WHMs need to regen more mana, but that in the future this will make PIE a worthless stat (it's actually pretty bad already).

The purpose is not to buff/nerf shroud, that doesn't matter. It's to give shroud a PIE scaling component so it remains useful throughout, essentially, all content and tier levels.

[Goreth]

Reminds me of WoW Shaman's mana tide, for what it's worth they eventually made it scale... after two years. But yes you are hitting on a good point, PIE should be made more interesting mechanic-wise for casters.

[Incredible]

So you want to nerf WHM and call it a buff? I have ~4500 mana, 20% is 900. I'll take the 1060 or whatever it is. Thanks.

[Eidolon]

So you want to nerf WHM and call it a buff? I have ~4500 mana, 20% is 900. I'll take the 1060 or whatever it is. Thanks.

The issue is, as we gear up further and level up more, the Shroud of Saints will slowly fall off in effectiveness. If we go over 5k MP, we will eventually lose the benefit of it being over that 20% threshold.

The comparison they drew to Aetherflow is actually really good. Not only does Aetherflow usage cause a 20% mana regeneration, it's on a 1 minute recast timer, it's instantaneous, AND it gives the Summoner/Scholar Aetherflow stacks, which can be converted into another 450+ MP (Depending on damage. My scholar's only 45, so it does about 150 mana per use. And this also scales based on the damage you do.)

So, in the time a White Mage can use a single Shroud of Saints, a scholar can:

Use Aetherflow 3 times (60% mana garunteed)
Use their Instant-20% heal 9 times (180% total HP healed, static number) Or recover additional mana.

[Skies]

Shroud of Saints actually scales off of healing potency...
Or at least is what is the text indicates

[CalvatE]

You mean bards that actually use their songs besides foe and the sprint one?

Yeah, quite a lot it's desired. Especially for Speed Runs, Mage's Ballad is joyous!

Although when I actually think about it... if 5000 MP is needed to regenerate 1000 MP... my raid leader (a Scholar, iLevel 84) has 4386 (let's say 4300)... 860 MP a minute... 2 minutes that becomes 1720 mana regenerated in the time we get one Shroud of Saints off.
And that's not including that attacking one which gives them back mana, too!

Although I wonder if it's a bug since...

Shroud of Saints actually scales off of healing potency...
Or at least is what is the text indicates

Why would it be potency if it were static...

I don't know how to feel about this. On one hand, sure, 'fix' it and we can be using more (not spamming!) heals before running out of mana...
... but on the other hand... Then bards will slack off!!!!

[Klive]

Your mana pool does increase with piety and so does your passive mana regen. You heals become more effective with gear, but stay the same cost. Mana regen and heal strength already scales with gear and costs are static... so why is the scaling for shroud needed?

Your spells will take less % of your max mana as max mana increases.

If mana cost of spells increased with gear, I could see a need for this scaling for shroud. WHM are not struggling for mana in coil.

Second, I know it is easy to compare SCH and WHM, but is it like comparing apples to oranges. Both jobs heal, but are very different about it.

Aetherflow =/= shroud.

SCH strength is infinite mana and low threat, but at the cost of lower heals, Aetherflow stack management, and retarded fairy AI.

WHM strength is extremely powerful heals, but at the cost of mana management and threat management.

[Syncness]

So you want to nerf WHM and call it a buff? I have ~4500 mana, 20% is 900. I'll take the 1060 or whatever it is. Thanks.

This is not what I said at all, I merely suggested PIE should be in the shroud regen calculation. Balance is a different issue entirely.

Shroud of Saints actually scales off of healing potency...
Or at least is what is the text indicates

This is not what testing indicates. http://www.reddit.com/r/FFXIVTC/comm...oud_of_saints/

Your mana pool does increase with piety and so does your passive mana regen. You heals become more effective with gear, but stay the same cost. Mana regen and heal strength already scales with gear and costs are static... so why is the scaling for shroud needed?

Completely irrelevant as that is innate to PIE.

I also was not comparing both classes and did not suggest that WHMs should gain an Aetherflow equivalent. I only suggested PIE should be in the Shroud regen, somehow. Otherwise it will make PIE a weaker and weaker stat which I guess is bad for future game design (just like how STR returns for tanks is crap now).

[IceSpear]

I also was not comparing both classes

I don't really want to bring class comparisons into this, but Aetherflow regens 20% IIRC.

The proof is in the pudding.

[CalvatE]

This is not what testing indicates. http://www.reddit.com/r/FFXIVTC/comm...oud_of_saints/

Thanks for posting this, I honestly wondered the other night how much we regenerate and I thought 'well based on potency I guess it's really not as bad as I thought!', I thought that it was due to 2 minutes some people wind up going 'I better save it just in case' and so it prolongs the use and thus overall next usage...

But sheesh kapeesh! 1060? I always thought it was more...!