+1 relic weakest upgrade for tanks?

[Grembo]

Snip

Looks good to me, really thought the Allagan shield was best in slot though.

Might be a bit of a random question but while we're at it, is Heavy Allagan chest + Hoplite Circlet much better stat wise then the Heavy DL armour?

Got the Allagan chest earlier and figured farming the Hoplite Circlet would be the best option for me till I can afford the Myth helm.

[TirionCrey]

Looks good to me, really thought the Allagan shield was best in slot though.

Might be a bit of a random question but while we're at it, is Heavy Allagan chest + Hoplite Circlet much better stat wise then the Heavy DL armour?

Got the Allagan chest earlier and figured farming the Hoplite Circlet would be the best option for me till I can afford the Myth helm.

You will lose some parry and a lot of crit, over 8VIT and around the same amount of STR, but get a lot of Acc. I personally would use the Allagan Body and the Hoplite Head, over the Heavy DL just cause PLDs don't crit that much anyway, and the increase in STR will do more for your sustained dmg over time. And unless your already ACC capped the Acc won't hurt either. And 8VIT is another 120HP for your healers to have as a buffer before you die The loss of 6Parry won't hurt you much. Also you get more DEF and MagDef out of it, so it is kinda better anyway^^

[Maelwys]

I don't know where people get their information from, but look at the pieces, do the math and it is obvious in every single slot which is BiS

Agreed.

Base Stats @ 50 PLD (Seawolf):
205 Str, 189 Dex, 237 Vit, 341 Parry, 341 Acc, 341 Crit, 202 Det, 341 SS

Plus Stat Allocation: 30 Vit

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

** BIS Pre-clearing Turn 5, +Vit setup **

Neck: Allagan
Ear: Allagan
Wrist: Allagan
Ring1: Allagan
Ring2: Heros

Weapon: Curtana +1
Offhand: Allagan Shield
Head: Valor
Body: Valor
Hands: Valor
Waist: Allagan
Legs: Valor
Feet: Allagan

Grand Total (with above gear, no food):
361 Str, 189 Dex, 518 Vit, 566 Parry, 484 Acc, 371 Crit, 230 Det, 352 SS
HP: 6820.66 (in Party, no food) (Can swap Allagan Shield for Holy +1, but then will need to use food to hit Coil 5 Acc Cap)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

** BIS Post-clearing Turn 5, +Vit setup **

Neck: Allagan
Ear: Allagan
Wrist: Heros
Ring1: Allagan
Ring2: Heros

Weapon: Allagan Blade
Offhand: Allagan Shield
Head: Allagan
Body: Valor
Hands: Allagan
Waist: Allagan
Legs: Valor
Feet: Allagan

Grand Total (with above gear, no food):
361 Str, 189 Dex, 518 Vit, 594 Parry, 475 Acc, 352 Crit, 230 Det, 352 SS
HP: 6820.66 (in Party, no food) - Needs approx +5 Acc from Food to hit the Coil 5 Acc cap

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

** BIS Pre-clearing Turn 5, +Str/Dex setup **

Neck: Melded Gryphonskin
Ear: Melded Rosegold Earcuffs
Wrist: Melded Gryphonskin
Ring1: Melded Gryphonskin
Ring2: Melded Gryphonskin

Weapon: Curtana +1
Offhand: Allagan Shield
Head: Valor
Body: Valor
Hands: Allagan
Waist: Allagan
Legs: Allagan
Feet: Allagan

Grand Total (with above gear, no food):
406 Str, 234 Dex, 493 Vit, 540 Parry, 484 Acc, 383 Crit, 284 Det, 359 SS
HP: 6447.285 (in Party, no food) (Can swap Allagan Shield for Holy +1, but then will need to use food to hit Coil 5 Acc Cap)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

** BIS Post-clearing Turn 5, +Str/Dex setup **

Neck: Melded Gryphonskin
Ear: Melded Rosegold Earcuffs
Wrist: Melded Gryphonskin
Ring1: Melded Gryphonskin
Ring2: Melded Gryphonskin

Weapon: Allagan
Offhand: Allagan Shield
Head: Allagan
Body: Valor
Hands: Allagan
Waist: Heroes
Legs: Allagan
Feet: Allagan

Grand Total (with above gear, no food):
406 Str, 234 Dex, 493 Vit, 553 Parry, 475 Acc, 368 Crit, 292 Det, 359 SS
HP: 6447.285 (in Party, no food) - Needs approx +5 Acc from Food to hit the Coil 5 Acc cap

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

** Possible Upgrades via spending Myth **

Neck (Darklight --> Heroes) +5 Vit, -1 Parry, -9 Acc, +16 SS
Ear (Darklight --> Heroes) +5 Vit, -1 Parry, -6 Det, +16 SS
Wrist (Darklight --> Heroes) +5 Vit, +7 Parry, -12 Acc, +11 Crit
Waist (Darklight --> Heroes) +4 Str, +5 Vit, +4 Acc, -9 Parry, +8 Det, +3Def/+3MDef
Weapon (Relic --> +1) +3 Str, +4 Vit, +2 Parry, +3 Acc, +2 Damage (= +2.916% AA DPS, +2.959% WS DPS with Pre5 Vit BIS)
Offhand (Relic --> +1) +1 Str, +2 Vit, +2 Parry, +14 Block (= +1.2264% Block Strength)
Hands (Darklight --> Heroes) +6 Str, +6 Vit, +10 Parry, -16 Acc, +15 Crit, +4Def/+4MDef

Ring (Hoplite/Darklight --> Heroes/Darklight) +7 Vit, +3 Parry, +5 Acc
Ring (Allagan/Darklight --> Allagan/Heroes) +5 Vit, -1 Parry, +7 Acc

Head (Darklight --> Valor Head/Hoplite Body) +1 Str, +2 Vit, -43 Parry, +45 Acc, -15 Crit, +17 SS, -1Def/-1MDef
Body (Valor Head/Hoplite Body --> Both Valor) +13 Str, +15 Vit, +34 Parry, -24 Acc, +17 Det, -17 SS, +10Def/+10MDef

Body (Darklight --> Valor Body/Hoplite Head) +6 Str, +8 Vit, +2 Parry, -30 Crit, +15 Acc, +17 Det, +2Def/-2MDef
Head (Valor Body/Hoplite Head --> Both Valor) +8 Str, +9 Vit, -11 Parry, +6 Acc, +15 Crit +7Def/+7MDef

Legs (Darklight --> Valor Legs/Hoplite Feet) +6 Str, +8 Vit, -8 Acc, +4 Parry, +10 Det, +2Def/+2MDef
Feet (Valor Legs/Hoplite Feet --> Both Valor) +8 Str, +9 Vit, +15 Parry, +10 Acc, -10 Det, +7Def/+7MDef

Feet (Darklight --> Valor Feet/Hoplite Legs) +1 Str, +2 Vit, +9 Parry, +17 Crit, -22 Acc, -1Def/-1MDef
Legs (Valor Feet/Hoplite Legs --> Both Valor) +13 Str, +15 Vit, +10 Parry, -17 Crit, +24 Acc, +10Def/+10MDef

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

** Primary Points (Vit) gained per 100 Myth points spent: **

1.333 Neck (Darklight --> Heroes) WARNING: -9 Acc
1.333 Ear (Darklight --> Heroes)
1.333 Wrist (Darklight --> Heroes) WARNING: -12 Acc
1.333 Waist (Darklight --> Heroes) Bonus: +4 Acc
0.667 Weapon (Relic --> +1) Bonus: +3 Acc, +3% WS Damage (and therefore enmity generation)
0.667 Offhand (Relic --> +1) Bonus: approx +0.3% Damage Mitigation versus non-magic frontal attacks
1.212 Hands (Darklight --> Heroes) WARNING: -16 Acc

1.867 Ring (Hoplite/Darklight --> Heroes/Darklight) Bonus: +5 Acc
1.333 Ring (Allagan/Darklight --> Allagan/Heroes) Bonus: +7 Acc

0.404 Head (Darklight --> Valor Head/Hoplite Body) Bonus: +45 Acc
1.818 Body (Valor Head/Hoplite Body --> Both Valor) WARNING: -24 Acc

0.970 Body (Darklight --> Valor Body/Hoplite Head) Bonus: +15 Acc
1.818 Head (Valor Body/Hoplite Head --> Both Valor) Bonus: +6 Acc

0.970 Legs (Darklight --> Valor Legs/Hoplite Feet) WARNING: -8 Acc
1.818 Feet (Valor Legs/Hoplite Feet --> Both Valor) Bonus: +10 Acc

0.404 Feet (Darklight --> Valor Feet/Hoplite Legs) WARNING: -22 Acc
1.818 Legs (Valor Feet/Hoplite Legs --> Both Valor) BONUS: +24 Acc

[CianaIezuborn]

Massive amount of calculations here

This is awesome, thank you for sharing this!

Seeing all the calculations here is definitely leading me to hold till next week to get the Valor helm next, was considering +1 Shield for the short term benefit in case the Allagan doesn't drop. Seeing the stat gains on each slot here has swayed me towards the helm instead (already have chest purchased).

I'd already figured out what I would work towards for BiS, but this helps me with my much larger problem and that's efficient use of Myth stones while working around Allagan drops.

[fuzz]

I havent +1 my Bravura yet and have no trouble keeping hate or ripping hate off of PLD if im blowing CDs for dmg and not watching hate (yea, my bad).

That being said, im looking at +1'ing my relic soon for PvP

-fuzz

[Phreak]

I have to disagree with your Post-Turn 5 set up, 15 crit rate (using valor gloves + feet instead of allagan) is more average through put than 11 DET.

[Maelwys]

I have to disagree with your Post-Turn 5 set up, 15 crit rate (using valor gloves + feet instead of allagan) is more average through put than 11 DET.

If Crit = Det in terms of additional damage granted, I'd agree with you... however Det is worth considerably more per point for a Paladin since we're not stacking DPS stats.

Plugging the BIS values into http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=260 with an Allagan weapon gives:

VIT SETUP:
361 Str, 189 Dex, 518 Vit, 594 Parry, 475 Acc, 352 Crit, 230 Det, 352 SS
361 Str, 189 Dex, 518 Vit, 594 Parry, 475 Acc, 367 Crit, 219 Det, 352 SS
WS: -0.45% DPS
AA: -2.12% DPS

STR/DEX SETUP:
406 Str, 234 Dex, 493 Vit, 553 Parry, 475 Acc, 368 Crit, 292 Det, 359 SS
406 Str, 234 Dex, 493 Vit, 553 Parry, 475 Acc, 383 Crit, 281 Det, 359 SS
WS: -0.31% DPS
AA: -1.57% DPS

Bottom line: always going to be a decrease, sorry

[Zazakura]

I went for +1 first point as paladin . never looked back, never will look back, its superb upgrade and remember kids: faster dps can nuke, faster mobs die outta your arses, but for dps to nuke faster you need to be able to hold all the aggro

[Maelwys]

I went for +1 first point as paladin . never looked back, never will look back, its superb upgrade and remember kids: faster dps can nuke, faster mobs die outta your arses, but for dps to nuke faster you need to be able to hold all the aggro

It pretty much comes down to "Go for the +1 weapon whenever you are having trouble holding aggro with your DPS going flat out."
For most of us, it appears that this only really starts happening at Coil Turn 2s and 4.

It's a balancing act though. You can push the Threat output up much further if you're willing to start sacrificing a little Vit and Parry for it (and in extreme cases, respecing for +Str over +Vit)

The Gryphonskin setup I mentioned above is probably the best means I've found to boost a Paladin's threat output up as high as possible whilst sacrificing as little Vit and Parry as possible. There's actually another Gryphonskin setup which pushes up a Paladin's STR and DEX as high as possible (NOT threat output, just the raw STR and DEX values) whilst sacrificing as little Vit and Parry as possible and not burning a respec: this is the "Maximum Block/Parry" configuration... which is a rather odd build but can technically withstand a higher amount of incoming damage over time than a "Full Vit" setup. (Exactly how much extra mitigation over time it provides is up for debate - the affect of +Str on Block Strength is known, but there's a lot of ongoing theorycrafting about exactly how +Dex affects Block/Parry rate...)

Compared to the Post-T5 +Vit BIS build above, you'd basically use the Valor Hands and swap all the accessories out, sacrificing 9 Parry, 25 Vit and 2 Acc for 45 Dex, 45 Str, 31 Crit, 30 Det and 7 SS.

[Phreak]

Does crit have walls you have to meet before it scales to a level that it is desirable? That's my only guess as to why it isn't worth it for PLD but every DPS class seems they can't get enough of it and laugh at DET.