Join In Progress Idea.

[Curagaja]

How possible would it be to add a function to the search in progress of Duty Finder that allows players to decide the progress they want to find before they are matched?
It would be nice to be able to check [1/4] or more completed or don't match me.

More importantly, how possible is it to implement a feature to the Duty Ready screen after you find a party in progress that tells you the remaining roles and time left in the dungeon?

Example:
Duty Ready!
Progress: [2/4]
Tank[1/1] DPS[1/2] Healer[0/1].
Time remaining: [55:07]

I ask how possible because my programming skills and understanding of such things is awful at this point in time.
What negative effects could come from one or both of these being implemented?
What positive effects could come from one or both of these being implemented?

Edit: 1/? typos fixed.

[Steeled]

It's possible, and the time-remaining portion is good idea. I'd join an AK that had more than 90 minutes left and appeared to be demon wall. I wouldn't join one with less than 70.

The rest isn't a good idea for 2 reasons.

1.) It divides a low-population pool too far.
2.) We've all seen the person farming one boss, or one portion of the map for drops. You want something off the second boss, you join a 1/3 group, kill it, and disband. See the problem?

[Estellios]

No one would join except for the final boss for the best stone drops.

[Curagaja]

No one would join except for the final boss for the best stone drops.

This might be true for the tomestone dungeons, but not necessarily for the others.
A (potentially rare) case that might come up due to this would be the Join box showing Time remaining: [75:24] (or something high like that) with Progress [2/4] and realize that those remaining in the dungeon were doing a great job of clearing it, but some important role had to leave which put them at a stand-still. The player searching would decide immediately to join and keep the party going knowing that he got into a good group before he even clicked join.
The counter-argument to this would be Time remaining: [30:10] (or some reasonably low amount of time) Progress: [2/4]. The player searching would immediately notice that this party is incompetent when it comes to the dungeon and would cancel their application immediately. But I don't see this affecting anything. If the player was unable to see this until after they joined, then they would join and leave as soon as they notice time remaining and progress complete. Those would be almost the exact same situation.

Edit: Typo 1/?

[Ri_ri]

I think you shouldn't even be able to choose between new and in progress groups.

[Steeled]

I think you shouldn't even be able to choose between new and in progress groups.

As a tank and healer, I can see that as more of a GIANT MIDDLE FINGER to dps. Waiting 45 minutes for a group? The group you got can't actually play the game and has 16 minutes and 3/4 bosses left.

[VahnValbosce]

What negative effects could come from one or both of these being implemented?
What positive effects could come from one or both of these being implemented?

Ok, I'm just going to come in here and do what I have to do. And that is completely buckle the foundation of this idea to the ground.

From the perspective of a tank or healer role, nobody would ever join a new party. I read your post in the other thread, and what you don't understand is that healers and tanks are a limited resource. But, let's break this down.

Let's say there are 50 Tanks and 70 Healers and 200 DPS in the queue, with this feature enabled, all are waiting for WP or AK.

200 DPS are marked for new party or "any progress" (The queue time for a DPS is already around 30~ minutes for a new group. Checking for in progress on last boss as a DPS? Good luck waiting 3 hours for a queue pop. Pretty much expect all DPS to queue for "any progress")

Roughly about, hmm 45 Healers, maybe 50 Healers are queued for 2/4+ or 3/4~ progress. I say this cause people who play healers are generally moderate about their demands, plus Healing queue times are around 5 minutes or so, sometimes instant. So it's fairly quick.

90% of ALL tanks will queue for final progress. You know why? Cause their queue time is 5 seconds on average. You don't play a tank, so you don't realize just how simple it is to queue for any dungeon as a tank.

Now that leaves a handful of tanks, a bunch of healers and well pretty much every DPS job left over to form new groups.

Let's analyze from now.

So, with barely any tanks and healers to form new groups, how many groups on average are going to have some person leave on the very final boss? Not alot, you know why? Cause queue times for new groups is going to skyrocket. Get ready for DPS queues being 1-2 hours, because all the tanks and healers are queued for final progress.

But... with such high "new group" queue times, the chances of getting a queue with "final progress" is very low.

The whole concept is flawed and basically sums up to this:

0 Positive
Infinite Negative

The solution?

Remove view of progress entirely, except for time remaining or put a penalty to people who are constantly withdrawing to search for "final progress" dungeons.

If the above is not done, then DPS are completely left in the dust. And guess what? DPS jobs are the majority and have the worst queue times, so things need to be done to satisfy them. If not, you are neglecting 70% of your playerbase.

That's it.

[Sephirah]

I do not play a tank so I really don't understand their queue times and had no idea it was really that short. As a healer I occasionally get 30min+ queue times even with "Join in Progress" checked. Thanks for pointing out that flaw.


I do not agree with your proposal about removing Progress entirely being the solution. This would create a system where players such as myself would search and base whether not they want to join on the time remaining. If we believe the time remaining corresponds do the place we want to be at, then we join. But if we join and find out we were mistaken, then we leave immediately (joining a dungeon in progress and leaving has no penalty). The only change I see from hiding Progress is that those who seek in progress have to reset their search around 30 seconds later than they would had they simply declined the offer to enter.
Giving an extended penalty to players who quit out of N number of dungeons in T time seems like a better solution.

I also do not agree with the zero positives, but I already mentioned what I believe is gained from this and you have given your opinion as well.

What would your view be on the addition of showing what roles are present in the dungeon? I believe this will cut down on the number of times players join a dungeon that has a single afk player. While this would also scare some people out of joining if a tank or healer role is missing.

You clearly want this game to be even more casual than it already is. They should allow you to join in-progress groups, but they should NOT show the progress, or time remaining until after you join. I'm sorry if this game is "too demanding" for you to enjoy it, but you should NOT be queuing for anything unless you know you can participate the ENTIRE run. If you have 10 minutes before you need to go to work, then guess what, you don't have time to queue.

[Curagaja]

You clearly want this game to be even more casual than it already is. They should allow you to join in-progress groups, but they should NOT show the progress, or time remaining until after you join. I'm sorry if this game is "too demanding" for you to enjoy it, but you should NOT be queuing for anything unless you know you can participate the ENTIRE run. If you have 10 minutes before you need to go to work, then guess what, you don't have time to queue.

Sorry, I didn't clearly state it earlier. Even though I can only play late friday to mid sunday I am online many hours those days.It's not that I join in progress regularly because I can't complete the whole run from start to finish. It's that I can't play during the week so I try to increase the amount of dungeons I can collect rewards for in the time frame that I can play in order to stay competitive. Recently I have been gathering some friends and running Wanderer's Palace start to finish in 11-15mins many times instead of searching for dungeons in progress.

By no means do I find this game demanding. I'm usually on the side of making this game less casual. Adding this feature wouldn't make this game more casual, but it would add a convenience to the duty finder system.

Just curious as to why you think fishing for "in progress" dungeons is better...

It's not that I'm actively searching for a dungeon with the sole purpose of completing the dungeon. It's more of I want to level a lower level class, but I might as well search for a dungeon while I'm soloing so I can save time later. I agree that it is much faster to set up a group of players yourself or join one that is shouting and run with them.

Edit: Another quote.

[Sephirah]

Sorry, I didn't clearly state it earlier. Even though I can only play late friday to mid sunday I am online many hours those days.It's not that I join in progress regularly because I can't complete the whole run from start to finish. It's that I can't play during the week so I try to increase the amount of dungeons I can collect rewards for in the time frame that I can play in order to stay competitive. Recently I have been gathering some friends and running Wanderer's Palace start to finish in 11-15mins many times instead of searching for dungeons in progress.

By no means do I find this game demanding. I'm usually on the side of making this game less casual. Adding this feature wouldn't make this game more casual, but it would add a convenience to the duty finder system.

Again, joining in progress is only there to facilitate wait times, and help parties that lost someone. It IS NOT there so the person joining can get full rewards in 5 minutes. They will never add a feature to make THAT more convenient.