Join In Progress Idea.

[Curagaja]

How possible would it be to add a function to the search in progress of Duty Finder that allows players to decide the progress they want to find before they are matched?
It would be nice to be able to check [1/4] or more completed or don't match me.

More importantly, how possible is it to implement a feature to the Duty Ready screen after you find a party in progress that tells you the remaining roles and time left in the dungeon?

Example:
Duty Ready!
Progress: [2/4]
Tank[1/1] DPS[1/2] Healer[0/1].
Time remaining: [55:07]

I ask how possible because my programming skills and understanding of such things is awful at this point in time.
What negative effects could come from one or both of these being implemented?
What positive effects could come from one or both of these being implemented?

Edit: 1/? typos fixed.

[Steeled]

It's possible, and the time-remaining portion is good idea. I'd join an AK that had more than 90 minutes left and appeared to be demon wall. I wouldn't join one with less than 70.

The rest isn't a good idea for 2 reasons.

1.) It divides a low-population pool too far.
2.) We've all seen the person farming one boss, or one portion of the map for drops. You want something off the second boss, you join a 1/3 group, kill it, and disband. See the problem?

[Estellios]

No one would join except for the final boss for the best stone drops.

[Ri_ri]

I think you shouldn't even be able to choose between new and in progress groups.

[Curagaja]

No one would join except for the final boss for the best stone drops.

This might be true for the tomestone dungeons, but not necessarily for the others.
A (potentially rare) case that might come up due to this would be the Join box showing Time remaining: [75:24] (or something high like that) with Progress [2/4] and realize that those remaining in the dungeon were doing a great job of clearing it, but some important role had to leave which put them at a stand-still. The player searching would decide immediately to join and keep the party going knowing that he got into a good group before he even clicked join.
The counter-argument to this would be Time remaining: [30:10] (or some reasonably low amount of time) Progress: [2/4]. The player searching would immediately notice that this party is incompetent when it comes to the dungeon and would cancel their application immediately. But I don't see this affecting anything. If the player was unable to see this until after they joined, then they would join and leave as soon as they notice time remaining and progress complete. Those would be almost the exact same situation.

Edit: Typo 1/?

[Steeled]

I think you shouldn't even be able to choose between new and in progress groups.

As a tank and healer, I can see that as more of a GIANT MIDDLE FINGER to dps. Waiting 45 minutes for a group? The group you got can't actually play the game and has 16 minutes and 3/4 bosses left.

[VahnValbosce]

What negative effects could come from one or both of these being implemented?
What positive effects could come from one or both of these being implemented?

Ok, I'm just going to come in here and do what I have to do. And that is completely buckle the foundation of this idea to the ground.

From the perspective of a tank or healer role, nobody would ever join a new party. I read your post in the other thread, and what you don't understand is that healers and tanks are a limited resource. But, let's break this down.

Let's say there are 50 Tanks and 70 Healers and 200 DPS in the queue, with this feature enabled, all are waiting for WP or AK.

200 DPS are marked for new party or "any progress" (The queue time for a DPS is already around 30~ minutes for a new group. Checking for in progress on last boss as a DPS? Good luck waiting 3 hours for a queue pop. Pretty much expect all DPS to queue for "any progress")

Roughly about, hmm 45 Healers, maybe 50 Healers are queued for 2/4+ or 3/4~ progress. I say this cause people who play healers are generally moderate about their demands, plus Healing queue times are around 5 minutes or so, sometimes instant. So it's fairly quick.

90% of ALL tanks will queue for final progress. You know why? Cause their queue time is 5 seconds on average. You don't play a tank, so you don't realize just how simple it is to queue for any dungeon as a tank.

Now that leaves a handful of tanks, a bunch of healers and well pretty much every DPS job left over to form new groups.

Let's analyze from now.

So, with barely any tanks and healers to form new groups, how many groups on average are going to have some person leave on the very final boss? Not alot, you know why? Cause queue times for new groups is going to skyrocket. Get ready for DPS queues being 1-2 hours, because all the tanks and healers are queued for final progress.

But... with such high "new group" queue times, the chances of getting a queue with "final progress" is very low.

The whole concept is flawed and basically sums up to this:

0 Positive
Infinite Negative

The solution?

Remove view of progress entirely, except for time remaining or put a penalty to people who are constantly withdrawing to search for "final progress" dungeons.

If the above is not done, then DPS are completely left in the dust. And guess what? DPS jobs are the majority and have the worst queue times, so things need to be done to satisfy them. If not, you are neglecting 70% of your playerbase.

That's it.

[Sephirah]

The current ability to join parties in progress is there to do 2 things, and 2 things only. It's there to decrease wait times, and so that parties that lose someone mid run are not screwed.

It is NOT there to let you intentionally queue up for the last boss of a dungeon. This is not intended, and will never be intended.

If you aren't willing to put forth the effort then you don't get to have the rewards that come with it.

You mentioned in the other thread that your real life has you too busy to leave you much time to play. Know what that means? You don't get to play. Not without sacrificing something else that is "taking up your time". Or rather, you can play, but not any of the content that requires more time than you have, and with that the rewards that go with it.

[Sephirah]

I do not play a tank so I really don't understand their queue times and had no idea it was really that short. As a healer I occasionally get 30min+ queue times even with "Join in Progress" checked. Thanks for pointing out that flaw.


I do not agree with your proposal about removing Progress entirely being the solution. This would create a system where players such as myself would search and base whether not they want to join on the time remaining. If we believe the time remaining corresponds do the place we want to be at, then we join. But if we join and find out we were mistaken, then we leave immediately (joining a dungeon in progress and leaving has no penalty). The only change I see from hiding Progress is that those who seek in progress have to reset their search around 30 seconds later than they would had they simply declined the offer to enter.
Giving an extended penalty to players who quit out of N number of dungeons in T time seems like a better solution.

I also do not agree with the zero positives, but I already mentioned what I believe is gained from this and you have given your opinion as well.

What would your view be on the addition of showing what roles are present in the dungeon? I believe this will cut down on the number of times players join a dungeon that has a single afk player. While this would also scare some people out of joining if a tank or healer role is missing.

You clearly want this game to be even more casual than it already is. They should allow you to join in-progress groups, but they should NOT show the progress, or time remaining until after you join. I'm sorry if this game is "too demanding" for you to enjoy it, but you should NOT be queuing for anything unless you know you can participate the ENTIRE run. If you have 10 minutes before you need to go to work, then guess what, you don't have time to queue.

[VahnValbosce]

What would your view be on the addition of showing what roles are present in the dungeon? I believe this will cut down on the number of times players join a dungeon that has a single afk player. While this would also scare some people out of joining if a tank or healer role is missing.

Getting rid of the AFK players would be the step.

Showing what roles are already in the dungeon can have negatives and positives, but I think priority on filling active dungeons should be #1. I've done a few dungeons where a DPS drops and then for some wierd reason it takes 10+ minutes to fill in that DPS spot. This needs to change. As far as keeping players in the dark, then it should remain as is. It should be "In progress" or "New start" Not "Last Boss, here's 40 free mythology" But there has to be a penalty for people fishing for "In progress" dungeons, because then tanks with literally 2 second queue times will fish for "In progress" all the time.

On a side note:

With a good group, you can kill Garuda about 4-5 times in 30 mins or less, giving you your 40-50 myth. A good group in AK can down it in 25-30 Mins, an extremely good group can do it in under 20 mins. A good group in WP can down it in 15-20 mins and extremely good groups clearing it in 10 minutes. I don't understand the time constraints? I also don't know why you're sitting in Queue for 30 minutes when in Revenants Toll there are tons of people shouting for healers to join their WP or AK run. The time spent sitting in Queue, you could have finished a dungeon (or two) already.

Just curious as to why you think fishing for "in progress" dungeons is better...