Summoner's MP issues

[Shadowzanon]

Well seeing that the OP basicly needs 2 pieces of gear to have a full ilvl 90 set, i would not laugh at him. I just think maybe some of his fellow raid members need a bit more dps gear and hes giving all he can to not reach that enrage timer thus why he may be dependent on fester.

[Borfin]

He's claiming the issue is a problem with the class, not his group, his group's comp, his group's gear or even his own playstyle. He's placing the blame solely upon the class and claiming that in order to stay competitive, SMNs need to forsake their resource management.

That's flat-out wrong. All there is to it.

[Griddamus]

Is this thread serious? (I feel like I ask this question a lot.)

Energy Drain is a 150 potency attack.
Fester caps at 300 potency (assuming single target ofc).

Maybe it's because the scrolling combat text is inadequate, but are you sure fester afflicts all dotted targets and not just the one selected? Pretty sure it's just the one.

[Regis]

This thread is ridiculous...

OP manage your MP with energy drain. If you are the reason your FC can't beat twintania before enrage then it's because you're letting yourself run out of MP. When you are out of MP your DPS gets cut into a third of what it could/should be. This is part of the game.

[T0rin]

Maybe it's because the scrolling combat text is inadequate, but are you sure fester afflicts all dotted targets and not just the one selected? Pretty sure it's just the one.

Fester is definitely only single target. Anyone suggesting otherwise has never used the ability.

[pandabearcat]

Wait...are you guys seriously getting upset at the OP?

Why does the idiotic BLM who sarcastically posted have the most upvotes?

Can you actually compare the only class in the game who has absolutely no resource problems with anything? Don't be a jerk. Your post was trash and a complete strawman argument.

Was -that- the joke?

OP's concern is a serious one, and everyone is suggesting extremely dumb things to do instead of actually helping.

First of all, I've looked over the mana efficiencies of our spells.

One of the first things you need to drop is Ruin II.

NEVER ruin II, even once, except to fit in that 2nd Fester during RS.

It is by far our most inefficient spell (and only a "max" of theoretical potency over Ruin I for fitting in oGCDs.

Second, drop Thunder on multitarget enemies. It really, really is inefficient (borrowed from our gluttonous BLM "friends", who think they're so special with their infinite mana).

Third, drop miasma II on single target.

Fourth, drop Thunder on single target enemies, unless you have contagion for it. Yes I know this sucks and is a fairly painful dps loss, but it is again, our least efficient spell.

Fifth, and you should almost NEVER get to this point, drop Ruin.

As for fester vs energy drain...this is also a solution, but I don't know how it fits into our priority for what skills to drop.

Energy drain is worth 250? or so mp. So we have 250 mp to "gain" 150 potency that we lost from not using fester. Even using our most inefficient spell (Ruin II), we get roughly 160 potency out of that.

Thus, yes, if you're starting to run low (don't wait until you're dry, start going into "conserve" mode at around 40% mp post aetherflow), start doing the above.

FWIW I would drop thunder before going into energy drain, and save energy drain (at least 1, preferably 2 flows) in case you don't have mana to refresh your other DoTs. I would probably energy drain before I stopped using Ruin.

Also on any fight where the bard is singing for the healers, you shouldn't have any problem with mana.

That being said, yes, the game is stupidly unbalanced when you only have 1 dps class that fakes mana mangement but really just has infinite mana.

If every class did 20% more damage than BLM, then did 20% less damage when out of resource, then sure, that makes sense, thats a class mechanic.

But if every class does roughly same damage as BLM, then do 50% less damage when out of resource, that is ridiculously unbalanced.

[Kevee]

Other classes don't have to deal with this. Melee have Invigorate, which generally keeps their TP up well enough that they don't run dry,

oh how ignorant

snip

Panda, this isn't a "ACN/SMN vs. BLM" thread.

This is an "ACN/SMN vs. Everyone else" thread.



Yenn, you're a joke. This, combined with the crying thread about conflags/dreadknights?
For anyone who isn't aware about that, here it is: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-and-Twintania

Seriously, learn to play. ED over Fester is a DPS gain if you need MP. If you have a BRD ever singing mana song, you shouldn't have a problem.
If you use ED, it's a ~25 DPS loss if you don't need the MP, and it's a DPS gain if you do need the MP. ED + Anything but Ruin > Fester. That 266 MP can be used for a Bio II/Bio/Miasma/Thunder/SF cast, which out damages Fester.

Learn to manage your resource, just like every single other class/job but BLM.

Yes, we run out doing our optimal rotation.

How is that a bad thing? Go ask a MNK how fast they bleed dry if they want to fit in any Impulse Drives.

Resource management is something that needs to be present, otherwise you shouldn't have a resource at all. That's WHY they gave us Energy Drain and Aetherflow(and pots) in the first place.

Decisions have to be made, and that's a good thing.

[pandabearcat]

Oh, I see why people were upset now.

Anyway, I disagree with the resource management needing to be present thing.

That is to say, I agree with the idea of it, but I disagree with what is going on currently.

There is no reason to say, have TP be a problem for a monk, even if they are just doing their basic, combo rotation without any excess TP hogging abilities.

What good does it do? It just makes it frustrating when you run out of TP in just 4 minutes or something, and can do nothing about it. There isn't a choice here, it just dampens people's playstyles.

With the extremely long GCD and "resource" management which is less that and more just "here is a stupid full stop to your enjoyment of the game", it becomes a chore.

You want resource management? Look at, say, energy management for rogues. Shard/demonic fury/ember management for warlocks.

Cooldown based class like paladins. WoW has actual choices for the player and that is something this game is sorely lacking: actual rotational choices. Skills that compete for the same spot.

Combo classes come much closer to this but much of dps is so mindless. Which leads to the much tighter enrages, much tighter movement and mechanic requirements in fights than say, WoW, which is good, but this doesn't make the game fun as a dps.

This is not resource management. This is crap that means in a straight up fight every single class loses to BLM in between 3-5 minutes for dps, and there is nothing you can do about it.

I understand that if Yenn is spamming Ruin II or trying to thunder dot every mob, playing inefficiently or using AoE on 1 enemy, but if you play your class right, you shouldn't have to hold back. This just isn't fun.

The difference is choosing whether to say, use an expensive attack or save it for later, rather than just saying crap, Im' out of tp so I get to sit here for 10 seconds.

This is not resource management. Its just a hindrance to play with the most boring possible form of "resource".

[Kevee]

I would agree completely with your post, Panda, if Bard didn't exist to supplement other classes/jobs resources.

As it is, there is an outside source that can replenish your resource and that's what the game is balanced around.


Personally, I like that. It's a group dynamic. I don't want to be 100% self-sufficient, "I can go max DPS all the time by myself." That's boring. There would be no point to MP, or TP. It would be even more mindless. Just do your rotation, always and forever.

As it is now, there is. Rotations are limited by what they can/can't do due to MP/TP consumption, and AoE is limited which is another good thing(imo).

[pandabearcat]

Yea, Kevee, I realize that too. Its just saddening, I feel like the dependence on bard support is good, in a way, but also...kinda bad, in a way. I hope that makes sense.

I think I came off as super angry before because this is a pet peeve of mine, but this is still a game I enjoy, I just feel certain parts are not conducive to having a fun time XD

That being said, The TP song is still fairly bad iirc...I remember trying it without voice and it would be BARELY enough to keep up standard Bard rotation...which is kind of lame, because it means you cannot regen enough to do the song, drop after a bit, and then resume. Its kinda like a last ditch effort sort of thing.

The mana song is much better, and even with resses and full rotation on one target, I had no problems if a Bard sang for the healers.