Summoner's MP issues

[pandabearcat]

Oh, I see why people were upset now.

Anyway, I disagree with the resource management needing to be present thing.

That is to say, I agree with the idea of it, but I disagree with what is going on currently.

There is no reason to say, have TP be a problem for a monk, even if they are just doing their basic, combo rotation without any excess TP hogging abilities.

What good does it do? It just makes it frustrating when you run out of TP in just 4 minutes or something, and can do nothing about it. There isn't a choice here, it just dampens people's playstyles.

With the extremely long GCD and "resource" management which is less that and more just "here is a stupid full stop to your enjoyment of the game", it becomes a chore.

You want resource management? Look at, say, energy management for rogues. Shard/demonic fury/ember management for warlocks.

Cooldown based class like paladins. WoW has actual choices for the player and that is something this game is sorely lacking: actual rotational choices. Skills that compete for the same spot.

Combo classes come much closer to this but much of dps is so mindless. Which leads to the much tighter enrages, much tighter movement and mechanic requirements in fights than say, WoW, which is good, but this doesn't make the game fun as a dps.

This is not resource management. This is crap that means in a straight up fight every single class loses to BLM in between 3-5 minutes for dps, and there is nothing you can do about it.

I understand that if Yenn is spamming Ruin II or trying to thunder dot every mob, playing inefficiently or using AoE on 1 enemy, but if you play your class right, you shouldn't have to hold back. This just isn't fun.

The difference is choosing whether to say, use an expensive attack or save it for later, rather than just saying crap, Im' out of tp so I get to sit here for 10 seconds.

This is not resource management. Its just a hindrance to play with the most boring possible form of "resource".

[Kevee]

I would agree completely with your post, Panda, if Bard didn't exist to supplement other classes/jobs resources.

As it is, there is an outside source that can replenish your resource and that's what the game is balanced around.


Personally, I like that. It's a group dynamic. I don't want to be 100% self-sufficient, "I can go max DPS all the time by myself." That's boring. There would be no point to MP, or TP. It would be even more mindless. Just do your rotation, always and forever.

As it is now, there is. Rotations are limited by what they can/can't do due to MP/TP consumption, and AoE is limited which is another good thing(imo).

[pandabearcat]

Yea, Kevee, I realize that too. Its just saddening, I feel like the dependence on bard support is good, in a way, but also...kinda bad, in a way. I hope that makes sense.

I think I came off as super angry before because this is a pet peeve of mine, but this is still a game I enjoy, I just feel certain parts are not conducive to having a fun time XD

That being said, The TP song is still fairly bad iirc...I remember trying it without voice and it would be BARELY enough to keep up standard Bard rotation...which is kind of lame, because it means you cannot regen enough to do the song, drop after a bit, and then resume. Its kinda like a last ditch effort sort of thing.

The mana song is much better, and even with resses and full rotation on one target, I had no problems if a Bard sang for the healers.

[Kevee]

Yea, Kevee, I realize that too. Its just saddening, I feel like the dependence on bard support is good, in a way, but also...kinda bad, in a way. I hope that makes sense.

I agree.

It's good and bad.

Support needs to be strong to have a place, but it needs to not be so strong as to favor it over another to be able to clear content(2x BRD vs BRD+Another DPS). This was something I was angry about back in the HK days of Rift. There was a huge imbalance between Warrior and Rogue resource management, and they decided instead of making Warrior rely on the BRD/Consumable like Rogue, to just make it so Rogue didn't have to worry about it just like Warrior. I think you SHOULD need something else to be able to do your max DPS, but if you have that you should be able to do it all the time.

The game is balanced around bringing at least 1 BRD, imo, and that I'm fine with because there are 7 other slots to fill. If an encounter was unbeatable without 2x BRDs, or with some other composition, that would be one thing.

However, plenty of SMNs have killed Twintania by now. That shows it's not that big of an issue over the course of the fight, either due to the BRD, MP management, pots, or simply because SMN offers a lot more during Conflag phase, and while Conflagged/Stunned from Dreadknights.

Yenn is acting like it's a HUGE, GAME BREAKING issue, when he himself has downed Twintania(with one BRD).

It's not something preventing us from being in the fight.

[dragonflyseksparade]

This is a typical "qq my class isn't good they should make it better" thread. Nothing new here. Welcome to mmos.

[Shadowzanon]

That is kinda sad that the OP is actually complaining when he has downed the encounter. Our group only consists of one bard, we do have a summoner with us and he has never complained about mana issues so far, granted we havent downed turn 5 yet. Our bard isnt even used to do silences other than the miniADS boss at the start of turn 1. He is quite responsive in what the group needs n we dont have trouble.

I know it may sound wierd but we blm gotta be careful not to botch up our rotation or our dps will plummet. I would love to flare all the time at the end of my rotations but it is a risk as in not doing anything for a few seconds. Yeah our problem is nothing compared to summoners, scholars and whms but if we cannot dps even for 3 seconds, then having to wait to cast again, thats a bit hit on our dps.

[Seobit]

Having a bard ballad isn't really a solution, asking for someone to lower his dps just so you can up yours is a stupid proposition. It's nice to dip into it whenever healers require it, but competent healers don't need ballads too often if at all.

I think op's concern is a valid one although probably not as dire as he makes it out to be. I also think anyone in here who's only been into AK and are laughing at him telling him he has to learn to manage his MP really need to shut up.

[T0rin]

Having a bard ballad isn't really a solution, asking for someone to lower his dps just so you can up yours is a stupid proposition. It's nice to dip into it whenever healers require it, but competent healers don't need ballads too often if at all.

I think op's concern is a valid one although probably not as dire as he makes it out to be. I also think anyone in here who's only been into AK and are laughing at him telling him he has to learn to manage his MP really need to shut up.

It is a solution. These are team engagements, not solo engagements. It is a legitimate thing to rely on SUPPORT in your group to perform SUPPORT activities. If that means less Foe's Requiem and more Mage's Ballad, why is that an issue? The whole thing is a big balancing act. If you don't do it, the DPS suffers. I laugh how you say it is OK for a Bard to Mage's Ballad for a Healer, but not for a Summoner.

I'm honestly glad some classes actually run out of resources and have to play differently to deal with it. I'm glad some classes have to rely on other classes to operate at peak efficiency. I'm glad that fights aren't executed in a little bubble, with every character just spamming the same rotation until the end of time.

[Kevee]

Having a bard ballad isn't really a solution, asking for someone to lower his dps just so you can up yours is a stupid proposition. It's nice to dip into it whenever healers require it, but competent healers don't need ballads too often if at all.

Yes, a BRD ballad-ing specifically for the SMN is bad(unless the SMN is bottoming out for whatever reason).

It never needs to happen, though, because healers need it at one point or another, and that's enough for SMN.

You run with Vitto and he regularly asks for small bursts of Ballad, as a healer.

Use a pot, or two, if you're that worried--But we're fine, as exemplified by the OP himself. 1 BRD group, he's a SMN, and he's killed Twintania, not to mention he was being inefficient with his mana to begin with.

Basically any help would be great; it's silly that I have to interrupt our BRD in the last phase of Twintania and ask him to give me MP, while the three other casters are still nearly full on MP.
This is wasting time that he could be using for Foe Requiem, if I were any other class.

First, don't waste MP on conflag phase. Based on your other topic, you cast more DoTs on the Conflag, or don't have the timers for Bane. Fix that. Never cast Thunder on a conflag.

Second, don't waste MP on Dreadknights. You should not be using a full DoT rotation on them, unless you need Fester to kill them(in which case your other DPS need to pick it up).
You should be applying 2 DoTs and then spam Ruin. If you're running low on MP, Miasma->Bio->Ruin. If not, Miasma->Thunder->Ruin. Remember, Bio II has to tick THREE times to be stronger than a single ruin cast. If you're casting it third in line, you're not getting more damage, and you're wasting MP. Same applies for all DoTs -- Learn thresholds. Miasma is stronger than Bio if it has 4 or less ticks, and Thunder is more DPS for most of the duration. Don't use Bio if you're getting less than 2 ticks--It's better to ruin.
Depending on timers, ED > Fester for Dreadknights, both for killing and the future. If you don't need Fester to kill it, stop using it. If you only have time for 2 DoTs and 2 Ruins, it's better to do ED than waste a GCD(and mana) on Bio II+Fester.
There are other options, like rotating EDx2 on one Dread, Fester on next, Pet CDs on next.
Learn your timers, and spell efficiency based on timers/potency. Space things out.

Third, and I doubt you don't do this, but command your pet. For dreadknights, it's better(depending on DPS levels) to separate Rouse/Spur(whereas normally it's better to use them together). If you're using Accuracy food to make up for being lower accuracy, stop. Pets get no benefit from food, and if you're sitting at the 435 cap FROM FOOD(which means 415 ACC base, +20 from HQ Stuffed Cabbage), your pet is at ~75-80% accuracy. This is more of a DPS loss than, say, the gain from Vanya chest to AF2. A solution is to wear ACC gear to summon the pet, and then switch to your DPS gear and pop your food. However, if you or your pet die for any reason, when you re-summon it it will again have poor accuracy. Edit: Looking at your gear, this is most certainly a major issue if you aren't using an Accuracy set to summon your pet. With Rouse/Spur, which is in your Dreadknight rotation, is up--That's a 370-400+ damage hit. That's a huge chunk of damage. Get more accuracy. Misses = Less Damage = Takes more skills to kill. One missed R+S Wind Blade from Garuda is ~2 Ruins. If you're sitting at 415+Food, you're missing way too much.


Fourth, use pots(if you need to, after you fix the above), like melee use Invigorate. Don't wait until you bottom out. "I shouldn't have to use consumables!" -- If you expect the BRD to use pots to extend songs, which all competent BRDs do, you should expect yourself to use pots to stop from bottoming out.

[Vittorino]

[QUOTE=Kevee;1524847]Yes, a BRD ballad-ing specifically for the SMN is bad(unless the SMN is bottoming out for whatever reason).

You run with Vitto and he regularly asks for small bursts of Ballad, as a healer.

"disturbed at the sight of this diabolical treason! I shalt no succumb to such petty squabbles."

How dare you put such treason on my NAME!!! da Stache!
First off i regularly asking for a ballad is not in my style! Nevaaaar! When i do go to such lengths to ask a BRD for Ballad is when neanderthals get themselves hit by unnecessary damage thus making me use more mana than i'd like too. In addition to mechanics or new transitions i'm not familiar with. Da stache shalt never be labeled as asking for such pity chipper tunes!!

Yours Truly Captain Stache!