War Build > STR or VIT

[Leiron]

[B]Switching off your tank stance is not an alternative to gear, its the very first thing you do when are not tanking.
If you are not tanking, Defiance is OFF. Period. Not even worth saying it. We all know.

Why did you just repeat what I said?
What was the point besides liking to speak?

On top of this, having good STR, crit, det and skill speed helps a lot since [B]when you are not tanking, you should do your best DPSing

Sure it does, but since you are a tank, the amount of str,crit,det and skill speed gained from swapping accessories just isn't very large.
If we quantified it in terms of how much HP gain your Inner beast provides, its less than the vitality you gain from fending accessories.

It doesnt matter if MNKs and DRGs will do more damage than you, you are still supposed to do your best.

I am going to assume there is some language barrier because no one could possibly be so dense as to misunderstand.
A Dragoon will have a much larger gain from using DPS accessories, rather than vitality accessories.
A WAR simply does not due to the way their DPS capabilities are designed.
End story.

So the DPS you do now, isn't going to vary much from the damage you do afterwards.

You just refuse to understand, but the OP deserves to be informed.
Str and attacks stats are NOT useless for a WAR, and to be fair not even for a PLD.

Its not that I do not understand, its that I disagree
Understanding =/= Agreement.

Its not that the Str/Attack stats are useless.
Its the fact you do not gain MUCH from using DPS accessories over tanking accessories as a tank.
WAR/PLD are just not designed that way.

Maqaqa pretty much always has fully melded DPS acc on instead of i90. This only makes (her)/him lose 25 VIT over i90 to gain 45 or so STR.

Now, not everyone wants to invest the time into getting i70 5 slot (because it's very annoying to look at 7% chance to succeed 30 times), so it's not viable for all.

Doesn't particularly matter in the discussion of stats.
Is gaining 300+ health more beneficial than a personal 45 strength?

I would say, yes.
Simply because the more health you have, the less a healer has to spend time looking after you.
You gain an extra buffer before you die, so the healer can contribute their own DPS in the event it is necessary.

You just do not gain enough personal DPS to outweigh the benefits of being a stronger tank.

Damage increase by using Gryphonskin instead of fending: 15-20%

Quite sure its significantly smaller than that.
I have never seen 45 strength increase a tank's damage by such a large chunk.
Unless you are referring to the relative gear level which can be somewhat misleading since you're not providing the previous number before the str modifications.

Extra healing on Inner Beast: 15-20%

Extra parry chance gained? Depends on the effects of DEX on parry. Unknown but best guess is a % or two.
Extra damage reduced when parry succeeds? 1-2% (minimum 1%, but can hit 2 caps depending on where you are)
+30 crit or DET is easy to get over the set as well.

Anyone using Allagan <blank> of Fending in their jewellery slots is either doing it wrong, fighting Twintania or just hasn't made their Gryphonskin yet.[/QUOTE]

You've already proven yourself as someone who believes that the worst case scenario is the best one.

First of all, your actual DPS increase is that of 15 or so at BEST.
Which it won't be because you won't be popping berserk every time its off CD, nor will you always be using Fracture either.

Are you really trying to suggest a 15 DPS increase is going to be better than increase your HP by; if you are in DL gear; 6.8% or so or 375 hp?

The extra 15 to 20 DPS is not going to make a difference in killing an add.
What makes the difference is using your cooldowns appropriately.

Tanks who are stacking fending accessories are doing what they are supposed to do.
Tanking.

They're not lying to themselves that a personal gain of 15 DPS in tank stance is going to be better than letting the healer assist with DPS every now and then because they can take a hit or two more before needing a heal.

[Exstal]

Then it's an opinion and not an absolute.

[Delorean]

Second, it is always good to have too much health than too little.
Having "just enough" to tank it is just flawed logic.
If you have more than enough health, that means the healer doesn't need to focus on you often, and has more time to heal you up.
Always a good thing and never bad

the needs of a group varies depending on it's individuals

just because paragon solo healed heroic garrosh does not mean that it is the best solution for every player in every group.

Then it's an opinion and not an absolute.

We couldn't afford to wear the shitty vit/parry/skill speed accessories even if we wanted to. they (crafted accessories) might not be the absolute best, but they are arguably the best depending on the way you choose to optimize.

[Leiron]

Fact of the matter is.

Stat allocation = Go all vitality
Gear = should probably go all vit unless you so severely outgear the content that you can get with it. Cause hey, 15 more DPS makes a big difference =\

[Exstal]

I do full STR on my Warrior just to make healers work. I have an average item level of 65 on my Warrior hahaha

[Leiron]

Eh, I am more convinced at the idea that it is better to go full vitality, since a single damage spell from a healer every minute will mean more than increasing your overall DPS by 15.
Heck if you need to burst something right away its what FoF/Berserk/IR are there for.

If you have threat issues then that's a different story all together, but it is wrong to suggest that fending accessories should not be used over gyphonskin melds.

[Genesiser]

Eh, I am more convinced at the idea that it is better to go full vitality, since a single damage spell from a healer every minute will mean more than increasing your overall DPS by 15.
.

I'll play devils advocate here and play both sides real quick.

You do realize that if you increase your dps by 15, it would mean that the one healer's attack would have to hit for 900 dmg right? So perhaps that 15 dps isn't so insignificant.

Then again, if you as a tank are doing an extra 15 dps in a raid where you have 4 dps classes fighting and the fight lasts 5 minutes... That extra 15 dps would basically reduce the enemy hp by 3500 dmg. Say you have 4 dps doing 250 dps, you effectively made the fight end 3.5 seconds sooner than it would have.

--

Anyway, to add to the discussion. If as a tank you were able to get to like 90% of the dps of a dps class wearing some dps gear, then it may become worthwhile to do so. However, in this game it just isn't possible. The only way that would be possible is if they added a vengeance mechanic like they have in wow which is the more damage you take, the more damage you do. I remember in wow during LK (I think it was LK) I was able to wear some dps gear (and even then it was just making sure I was hit/expertise capped with a tiny bit of crit mixed in) and on one of the bosses in the place where you fight Cho'Gall on the twin dragon boss I was able to do 19k dps. The other dps in my group were doing 16-22k dps (we had some bad players and I did 10 mans so the extra dps was welcome) and in that sense, it made a difference because most tanks were only pulling around 9k dps. This game on the other hand doesn't allow you to do so. And the reality of the situation is you aren't really helping to kill the boss much faster than if you were in full tank gear.

[Leiron]

Yeah its not particularly difficult to put out 900 every minute or so.

[Maqaqa]

15% more DPS makes a big difference =\

Yes it does. A 15% damage increase makes a big difference indeed.
Its almost like having a skill like Fight or Flight up... all the time! Its almost like having Sword's Oath... on a Warrior! Its a mini berserker without the pacification!

Leiron, get a clue, seriously.
Its ok to disagree but its not so ok to derail every thread with a mix of wrong advices, dumb statements and personal attacks.
You keep commenting on fights you dont fight, gear you dont wear and stuff you dont know.

Do yourself a favor, go and get some experience on your WAR, you might end up posting something that makes sense.

[TaneshimaPopura]

My Paladin in OT build now puts out 260 DPS and I'm very sure it is capable of 280-290 DPS if I'm decked to the teeth. Decked out DPS would do somewhere around 360-380 DPS if I'm not mistaken. My Bard deals 320 DPS with his sorta crappy gear. Taking fights like Twintania where OT usually DPS 85% of the time over a 13 minutes fight.

I had 419 STR and assuming 2 STR (Too lazy to dig out a calculation somewhere) = 1 WPN DPS, a Curtana +0 would put my numbers to say 507 STR, 30/507* 260 would be around 15.4 DPS. Over the course of 663 seconds. That is 10200 damage. a Average 4 DPS with 350 DPS you end the fight 1.1% faster to a total of 7 seconds the fight ends faster which should be around 11000 worth of heals not needed to be healed around 9000 extra dmg mitigated via Parry and Blocks. About 30 DPS mitigation. This is assuming a boss which deals 1500 DPS on tanks only, if this boss has AoE it will increase the value more as shorter fights causes less damage taken.

Take in all that and now compared to a HP buffer of 463. Make your own conclusion.